ONLINE POKER IS 100% RIGGED - Page 13

AgentBishop · #**121** 06-18-2005, 11:04 PM

You know, I wanted to stay away from this ridiculous thread because I didn't want to get involved in an absurd argument with someone who is a close minded cynical idiot with the benefit of anonymity. You can say what you want when you are mad because no one knows who you are. You could very well be a regular poster here who has created a new identity just for this CRAP! Quite frankly, I'm disappointed in some of the posters here for even responding to this crap with valid arguments they know the idiots won't listen to and keeping this thread alive. Inevitable leading to my own post on this nonsense.

Dear Conspiracy Theorist,

If you feel this strongly about it maybe you should do a serious bit of research and form a factual opinion based on FACTS.

These sites you speak of hire third party multi-BILLION dollar corperationS (notice its plural! meaning more than one "fictitious" company) to come in and review new log files, monitor tables, and inspect software to verify the site is in no way cheating.
Idiot says: Don't you think party poker could pay them off to say the what they want them to say or maybe forge the documents.
Answer: Do you really think that A) the poker site is going to risk its billion dollar Corporation on your little "$500 bankroll." BTW if you manage to lose your entire bankroll at one table, you have other issues you need to deal with. So many issues that no one would read this because it would be MUCH longer than it is. And B) Do you ACTUALLY think these Corporations that have put their name on the line, would risk THEIR BILLION DOLLAR Corporation for Party Poker? NO!! Party couldn't pay them enough. And if party happen to OWN these corporations, see part B! All the blatant cheating in the world on ALL site couldn't make this +EV. They would have to cheat SO BAD it would be obvious, which leads me to another point.
People have posted their database numbers here of 250k, 300k, and up hands with everything as it should be. Just like the odds say they should be. Thus making it impossible for the site to be blatantly out right cheating like they would need to be to out weigh the risks of 3 or more MULTI-BILLION dollar Corporations. And C) Forgery? Come on!

For those of you questioning the randomness of the "Random" number generator, get a clue as well. For one, see above and two, do a little research and you will feel better.

Now listen up. Pay attention to what EVERYONE, who is undoubtedly more intelligent than you, is saying: You game is poor, you bankroll management is even worse, "People know if they are no good at poker" is an extremely ludicrous statement to make, Online poker sites DO have to much to risk, so do the third party Corporations if they lie, and people have posted HARD FACTUAL numbers that supports the expected LONG TERM outcome dictated by the MATHEMATICAL odds. Quit placing the blame somewhere else, it is your fault for losing money in the long run.

JayKon · #**122** 06-19-2005, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying it's impossible, but as a senior software developer/designer, attempting to write a program that, over a large number of hands, is consistent with probabilities and odds for all players and somehow builds in a house advantage would be a large undertaking to put it mildly. Imagine trying to build this "rigged" software that gives everyone an even distribution of cards over the long haul, but still cheats. It's not very likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too am a senior IT guy, as are more people on this forum than you might guess. And I disagree, not with your statement, but with your implication. Given the volume of data available, the number of hands it takes to get a usable confidence interval and the potential benifit a site _could_ receive, I know I could rig the deal in favor of the fish in order to maximize rake without it showing up in the stats.

Would it be hard? Yes? But then every senior IT guy I've met got there by being able to do the hard projects.

That said, I do not beleive Party, Paradise, Stars, or Planet is rigged in any way, shape, or form ... Pacific ... who knows, never played there and given the bad things I've heard - never will.

Al Schoonmaker · #**123** 06-19-2005, 12:13 PM

Thank you.

King_Striker · #**124** 06-19-2005, 05:07 PM

RedManPlus · #**125** 06-19-2005, 05:27 PM

There isn't a single FACT in your Apologia, AgentBishop.

For example...
Party Poker software...
Is provided by iGlobalMedia.

iGlobalMedia has changed it's name to Party Gaming...
And is going public as the owner of Party Poker.

But even today...
On the Party Poker web site...
It is strongly implied that iGlobalMedia...
Which no longer exists...
Is keeping their Poker server safe and secure from fraud.

This is laughable.

OK...
Just give 2 software auditors...
That you call "billion dollar" companies...
Operating within a mature legal system...
That are guarenteeing the security of online casino software...
In any real legal sense.

I doubt it can be an American or Canadian company...
Or foreign subsidiary of such...
Because "anti-money laundering statutes"...
Forbid any association.

PayPal was forced by the Justice Department...
To withdraw all services to off-shore casinos...
Because their capitalization/ownership/regulation is highly suspect and/or unkown.

Dealing with some facts...
Would be a good start.

rm+

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

AgentBishop · #**126** 06-19-2005, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In real life, even for a fun game with no money involved, no one would called a preflop raised AA2 flop with 4-8 offsuited. That kind of BS happenned to me like a hundred times. And ALWAYS hitting runner-runner.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it ALWAYS happened there would be proof in these MASSIVE databases people have. Also, more than a few select idiots, would realize it. I mean these are poker players! They are at leaset a LITTLE observant. sheesh!

[ QUOTE ]

*****hand deleted becuase of lack of data****

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Have A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Turn: x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] River: x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing the little x's are 3,4,5,6 of spades and you lost to str8 flush. If you have played enough to form such a strong opinion this is bound to happen. It's not impossible. If you say "but it ALWAYS happens", see my first comment and stop insulting mine and everyone elses intelligence who play online.

[ QUOTE ]

Want a list? These 1 in 990 bad-beats ONLY happen online. In my years of playing Poker B&M I have not seen as many bad beats, nor as many bad calls winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, to say it only happens online is REDICULOUS! but then you go on to say "as many bad beats", reffering to B&M play. Thats what everyone is trying to tell you! You play a LOT more hands per hour than B&M play.

[ QUOTE ]

You don't have to believe me if you don't wanna. You will learn the hard way.[\quote]

Fine. But you, the great poker player who is always WAY WAY ahead in every hand, just go ahead and leave the fish to the rest of us. It's cool. I don't mind. But for the record YOU ARE ONE!

[ QUOTE ]

Just how often in a tournament do you see AK going heads up against AQ. Or AA against TT and losing? You can anticipate it almost every hand in online RIGGED poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK vs. AQ about %23. AA vs. TT about %20 percent. Hardly ALWAYS and hardly never. You have to keep in mind that it's a tourney with raising blinds, people can't just sit and wait. Of course you're gonna see this. Every hand? Come ON! There would be proof. Not just a few losers words.

I don't believe there is anything that ANYONE on this earth or in heaven could say to you(that's ALL you literal losers) to get you to understand. Therfore after I answer RunOnRainMan below you, I will no longer be wasting my time with these types of threads or topics.

King_Striker · #**127** 06-19-2005, 08:54 PM

AgentBishop · #**128** 06-19-2005, 10:13 PM

First of all, learn how to structure a damn sentence. I meane seriously. Im not english major and my setneces have errors for sure, but this crap you wrote is unbelievable.

[ QUOTE ]
For example...
Party Poker software...
Is provided by iGlobalMedia.

iGlobalMedia has changed it's name to Party Gaming...
And is going public as the owner of Party Poker.

But even today...
On the Party Poker web site...
It is strongly implied that iGlobalMedia...
Which no longer exists...
Is keeping their Poker server safe and secure from fraud.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? The company still exists but its called Party Gaming just like you said. They own party poker, star luck casino, and party bingo as well. Either way the software is certified by a INDEPENDANT third party company called iTech

Party is a member of IGC. A nonprofit INDEPENDENT organization and they have a Code of Conduct that party has to abide by.

Not to mention there are several "skins" that are a seperate business themselves from Party Gaming but use their software, and servers. This ,as you probably know, alows the affiliates' players to play in Party's much larger rooms. As a result they get a portion of the rake from Party.

[ QUOTE ]
Just give 2 software auditors...
That you call "billion dollar" companies...
Operating within a mature legal system...
That are guarenteeing the security of online casino software...
In any real legal sense.

I doubt it can be an American or Canadian company...
Or foreign subsidiary of such...
Because "anti-money laundering statutes"...
Forbid any association.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party is a member of IGC(Canadian BTW) as stated above and complies to their Code of Conduct. This means allowing an independent third party company com in and review logs and guarantee them to be fair and random. Party Certificate

Paradise is under Kahnawake Gaming Commission that is for instensive purposes the same as IGC. Paradise certificate

Poker Stars is with KGC as well and are inspected by two companies. Here

Ultimatebet uses KGC too. KGC usually has BMMi conduct the inspection but I am unable to find UB's certificate online.

All party skins will be the same as party. I could go through all the sites but what would be the point. If you want to know about the site you play at, just look it up.

[ QUOTE ]
PayPal was forced by the Justice Department...
To withdraw all services to off-shore casinos...
Because their capitalization/ownership/regulation is highly suspect and/or unkown.

[/ QUOTE ]
What does that have to do with rigged online poker games? But since you brought it up, PayPal was being sued by individual states for transferring money to online gambling sites. Ebay has since bought PayPal and has decided not to allow money transfer to online casinos. I saw nothing about them being "forced" to do anything except getting sued. That would force me to stop a lot of things.

Come on people! If you have questions about stuff like this, do a little research yourself. It's if you still don't feel comfortable with then STOP PLAYING! Simple.

King_Striker · #**129** 06-19-2005, 10:31 PM

silvershade · #**130** 06-20-2005, 12:07 PM

I'm not necessarily convinced that online poker is rigged, I dont really think that there's evidence of it, but I think that there is enough grey area to be a little suspicious that some sites out there might be rigged given the general lack of regulation.

Why would they rig it? Well fairly obviously if they did it would be a matter of keeping fish in the tank and indeed growing the number. More players means a bigger rake and if you plan on floating at some point then a better share price. Of course it is debatable as to whether you actually need to rig given the nature of Hold'em which is generally a nice game for the fish anyway.

How would you rig? Obviously rigging wouldnt be against a specific individual or in a specific individual's favour, you'd simply adjust the distribution of cards to ensure a few more suckouts for the sharks and a few extra wins for the fish. I'm not clear how anyone would ever know given that you did a good job with the algorithm. Basically everyone would get the same cards over time but you'd lose with a good hand more often as more big hands would trip over each other.

Is it even possible? As a senior software developer with some experience in writing financial modelling software I wouldnt be willing to say its impossible. Especially given the sums available in the industry, if someone with resources was motivated I reckon that they could rig and you would never likely never see it.

On balance I dont think its likely that the sites are rigged though. I see things happen online that sometimes makes my mouth drop, I dont see this stuff in B&M but then I dont play thousands of hands there either.