Debunking the "Blame Nagin and Blanco" Talking Points

xadrez · #1 09-09-2005, 10:18 AM

Link

DVaut1 · #2 09-09-2005, 10:28 AM

Clearly, you've missed the pictures of the buses under water. Never worry, BGC will be here soon enough with it.

Also, your link never addressed the "Bush is a problem solver" talking point, the "Democrats politicize everything (like the Hurrican Katrina aftermath) for political gain" talking point, and the "Howard Dean and his liberal Hollywood allies like Kanye West are disgusting for criticizing the President (therefore, we should all stop criticizing the President)" talking point.

vulturesrow · #3 09-09-2005, 10:31 AM

Does this article "debunk" the fact that Nagin ignored his own Emergency Preparedness Plan? Does it debunk the fact that Blanco's state Emergency Preparedness Dept. also failed to execute various critical steps?

cadillac1234 · #4 09-09-2005, 10:36 AM

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Does this article "debunk" the fact that Nagin ignored his own Emergency Preparedness Plan? Does it debunk the fact that Blanco's state Emergency Preparedness Dept. also failed to execute various critical steps?

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Does the above give the right to the Feds to act even more incompetent?

DHS/FEMA had ultimate control over the disaster relief according to their own protocols. Why weren't command systems established per DHS SOP? Why wasn't there a 'Joint Command Center' established per DHS SOP setup until Wed of this week?

vulturesrow · #5 09-09-2005, 10:42 AM

What does this have to do with the OP or my post for that matter? The subject line says Debunking the "Blame Nagin and Blanco" Talking Points. The posted link has addresses one specific issue. I merely pointed out others where Nagin and Blanco hold significant blame.

FWIW, I think Brown and Chertoff should be fired. They are obviously incompetent boobs, esp. Brown. And Bush deserves some criticism for hiring them. I would only point out that his appointment was standard Washington political patronage. Bush hardly deserves the level of invective the Bushitler crowd is throwing at him.

cadillac1234 · #6 09-09-2005, 11:02 AM

It has every thing to do with your points. The Feds had the ultimate responsibility to make sure things were running right per DHS 2004 SOP.

If you are the boss and see your employees flailing around and appearing to be overwhelmed by the situation you have the authority and the duty to act to correct it.

The Feds compounded the mistakes by not having a command structure in place, which they were supposed to have done per SOP, to coordinate and correct any problems at the State and local levels.

I worked EMS for 10 years. I worked the Oakland Hills Fire which was a complete clusterf$ck due to lack of communications and the ferocity of the fire. A command structure was immediately in place however and as soon as it was apparent that local systems were going to be overwhelmed (early on) mutual aid was called and on it's way. The Governor and President did not argue protocol. They mobilized resources.

Katrina is 100,000x as bad as the Oakland Hills fire in both scope and destruction. These command systems should have already been in place prior to landfall. The Feds told us they were. They lied. While LA dropped the ball on evacs they met what was considered scenario goals and did the appropriate state of emergency declarations to set the Fed in motion.

Blaming Nagin is like blaming a colonel who lost a skirmish in Iraq for the root problems there. I think the Gov has a lot of blame in this but ultimate authority lies with the Feds.

And I'm very glad to see you think that Brown and Chertoff are boobs. This incident has shed a lot of light on cronyism that is rampant in our government on all levels and parties

vulturesrow · #7 09-09-2005, 11:13 AM

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It has every thing to do with your points.

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You are looking too broadly here. I was merely answering the assertion that the snopes link refuted "Blame Nagin and Blanco Talking Points". It clearly doesnt and I brought some points to show that. Did I say anywhere that the feds had no share in the incompetence shown during this disaster ? The answer is no of course. I answered a very precise assertion with a a precise rebuttal. Your response to me went outside those bounds.

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The Feds compounded the mistakes by not having a command structure in place, which they were supposed to have done per SOP, to coordinate and correct any problems at the State and local levels.

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Ill have more to say about this assertion (and the rest of your points)in a separate post.

cadillac1234 · #8 09-09-2005, 11:54 AM

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It has every thing to do with your points.

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You are looking too broadly here. I was merely answering the assertion that the snopes link refuted "Blame Nagin and Blanco Talking Points". It clearly doesnt and I brought some points to show that. Did I say anywhere that the feds had no share in the incompetence shown during this disaster ? The answer is no of course. I answered a very precise assertion with a a precise rebuttal. Your response to me went outside those bounds.

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I apologize for moving out-of-bounds. I agree that the LA local and state response was poor but they at least followed the protocols for aid and met previous evac and scenario requirements. I do fault them for not having more troops at the Superdome pre-hurricane since there has been historical evidence of problems there during an evac.

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I'll have more to say about this assertion (and the rest of your points)in a separate post.

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I got a bad feeling we are going to have a long discussion on incident command procedures and decision trees
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BTW Bush dug his own grave on this one. He chose to continue to do his promotions instead of responding to the hurricane on Tuesday. Pictures of him playing guitar and eating cake aren't helping his 'I've done all I could' response to the incident. He probably would have gotten a lot less heat himself if he would have been seen as being in command initially.

vulturesrow · #9 09-09-2005, 11:58 AM

Also, my take on Bush. Very unusual for him to mess up the chance to make a very strong symbolic response here. That said, that isnt really a huge deal in my book. When you look at things Bush could have done to make a real difference, they are very few. The best thing Bush can do now is fire Brown and Chertoff (which he probably wont do).

cadillac1234 · #10 09-09-2005, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, my take on Bush. Very unusual for him to mess up the chance to make a very strong symbolic response here. That said, that isnt really a huge deal in my book. When you look at things Bush could have done to make a real difference, they are very few. The best thing Bush can do now is fire Brown and Chertoff (which he probably wont do).

[/ QUOTE ]

I also completely agree with this. The immediate way for the White House to deflect criticism and show that they are trying to do something besides phot-ops is to fire the 'Dog and Pony' show and stick some hard-ass ex-military guy or Guiliani in to shore up public trust in the two agencies.

The floodgates have opened up on Brown. He is unsalvageable and has proven himself to be completely incompetent.