question for fellow SSHE readers

Just curious, for those of you who are using preflop selections along the lines of Miller's SSHE charts, are you using the "tight" or "loose" chart? In particular I'm playing Party's .50/$1 ring games, and I lean more toward the tight chart for most tables, using the number of players/flop as my guide. But do any of you have better results using the looser selections, for example, say you have 4 to each flop and they're playing lost of weak and marginal hands. Just looking for people with more time logged in than myself. Thanks.

[aK13]

Most people deviate from the chart by their own standards. As you play more, you should be able to include more hands into your arsenal.

But FWIW, if you can't use the loose chart all the time, you're at a horrible .5/1 table.

[aargh57]

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But FWIW, if you can't use the loose chart all the time, you're at a horrible .5/1 table.

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Really, are they honestly that loose. I can't figure out this point. Let's assume that the blinds never fold and you play 20% of your hands (both just for the sake of argument). That means that you have 2.2 players on average to start. That means you still need 3.8 players on average to get a minimum of 6 players in the hand. Out of 7 people that means that the remaining players need to play 54.3% of there hands. Is .5/1 really that loose? I know 2/4 is rarely even in the 40% range VPIP

[Bankuri]

Sorry, but I almost never see a .50/1 Party table that sees 6 people to the flop occasionally, no less on average.

[ArturiusX]

Charts aren't a bad guide, but if you follow them strictly, you're losing EV+.

Think about why the chart wants you to limp in certain positions, etc.

[stuartharris]

I'll join with others in disagreeing here. While I only play at UB, I almost never see table where half the people consistently see the flop. If I'm lucky enough to find such a table, it doesn't stay that way long. From my experience, even the tight chart is a little too loose. The games I see simply aren't as loose or as bad as the ones generally described in SSH. Play 20-23%, raise half or more of those preflop, and study, study, study postflop play. The book is a goldmine there.

[Bankuri]

Now, while they aren't terribly loose, they are full of players playing really bad hands. Many players play any ace, any pair, and any suited cards if one is ten or higher from any position. And I generally see one person at each table who seems to be playing any two cards. What this amounts to is about 4-5 generally seeing the flop.

[Bankuri]

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Charts aren't a bad guide, but if you follow them strictly, you're losing EV+.

Think about why the chart wants you to limp in certain positions, etc.

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I have been working on this actually, but I'm not sure how to most effectively do this. I am of a mathematical bent, so I have thought about trying to do some calculations of preflop odds to make certain hands from given starting hands. This would give me some idea of pre-flop equities, but it wouldn't really tell me much about how hands actually play in multiway pots vs. short handed, or raised pots vs. unraised, etc.

I read the boards and listen to suggestions from the more experienced players, but I don't like to just take advice because someone says so. When someone says things like 'you will be ahead here well more often than 10% of the time', I think 'why?' 'how do you figure that?' 'are you just pulling numbers out of your butt?'

I've rambled enough, but I'm definitely at a stage in my poker development where I'm playing around with the hand charts so I can vary play based on table situations.

[ QUOTE ]
study, study, study postflop play. The book is a goldmine there.

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Thanks for the response guys. I do think that understanding the conceptual strengths of each type of hand makes it possible to tweak any given chart.
And the postflop stuff is definitely key in these games and I would assume even balances times where you may not be making the perfect play preflop. What prompted this post was Miller's suggestions like KXs in "loose" games. Intuitively this just seems too loose for any situation. Is anyone showing profits for hands like KXs?

[Fryguy]

I play somewhere in between the loose and tight charts. My vpip over 2 limits (16k hands in .5/1 and 1.5k in 1/2) is a pretty consistent 22-23.

They are a great starting point, but they need to be adjusted a bit on a player to player basis.