Implied odds conundrum with A5s on the turn

ClaytonN · #1 06-05-2005, 01:00 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Button raises, Hero....?

1) What should hero do?
2) Let's say Hero has A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. What should hero do?

iNsChris · #2 06-05-2005, 01:04 PM

9 flush + 6 OESD(subtracted 2 for flush)
Undiscounted = 15 2.1:1

Although im sure some are counterfitted/in their hands. But i call

Implied odds look nice.

istewart · #3 06-05-2005, 01:06 PM

Call.

benkath1 · #4 06-05-2005, 01:33 PM

I may be a psycho maniac, but I 3 bet the flop and lead the turn. If capped on the flop then call turn. If it's 2 to me on the turn, then I'm worried. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

edit: Still learning. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

ClaytonN · #5 06-05-2005, 01:38 PM

thats overaggro thinking. remember, you have a draw and 1 over. Not like you have a monster.

The reason for betting this out is to set the tone of having the lead in the hand, while at the same time hoping to get raised so you'll have odds to call on the turn should a blank hit.

Fantam · #6 06-05-2005, 01:49 PM

1) Hero should call. You have 9 outs to the nut flush. 3 outs to the bottom end straight and another 3 outs to a slightly better straight.

Even if you only value your straight outs as 3 in total, that gives you odds of ~ 3:1 to make a winning hand and the pot is currently offering you ~ 4:1.

2) Hero should still call. You now only have the 9 outs for the nut flush, so it appears that your odds of making your hand ~ 4:1 are about the same as the odds which the pot is offering you.

But there is a decent chance that UTG will also call the turn raise as he is also probably drawing and called the flop raise. Also there is a reasonable chance that you will pick up another bet or two on the river if you make your hand, and UTG and Button make crying calls.

So the implied odds that you are receiving for making your hand are now ~ 5:1 making your call profitable.

Just in passing, you were also receiving the same implied odds with the first hand, so that was just making the 1st decision to call even easier.

Hmm that was careless. I forgot about the A being an overcard. LEAK! LOL. OK that makes these calls even easier. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Kumubou · #7 06-05-2005, 02:05 PM

My question with this hand is what is the gameplan if you spike an Ace on the river? Without reads, I would not even consider them as outs -- UTG woke up on the turn, and the button ain't never scared. I do not even know if your straight outs (or all of them, anyway) are any good. I would give ~2-3 outs for the straight (a 4 would put you in an okayish position, losing to T9 and 59, but spiking a 9 would not be all that great).

Regardless, you need to call. The pot odds are close, but with your strong draw and the given action, any deficit in calling now should easily be made up on the river.

-K

ClaytonN · #8 06-05-2005, 02:08 PM

Ace is likely a dirty out. I check/call on river if I hit an ace. If its 2 bets to me when it comes back, easy fold.

Fantam · #9 06-05-2005, 02:30 PM

Why not bet the river if you hit an Ace and fold if raised?

Value bet to gain extra bets when you are ahead and get called, but only lose same amount as checking and calling when you are behind theory ? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

detruncate · #10 06-05-2005, 02:56 PM

Hero calls in both cases -- they're really not that different given the dubious nature of your straight outs. You'd need to collect a few bets on the river if you have to put in 4 on the turn (13:4, ish), but a turn cap isn't going to happen all the time... or even the majority of the time, probably. You don't have odds to raise, and it's not going to do your implied odds any favours -- with the striaght possibility on board, disguising your hand doesn't do you any good unless someone else has completed it (in which case you often get capped), and is likely to get you checked to on the river.