I'm A Poker Expert!

charlie_t_jr · #1 10-22-2004, 08:23 PM

This is the 1st time I've got all 8 questions right.

http://www.cgtv.com/games/column/102004/index.shtml

Suppose its a no brainer for those who have read SSH.

Rudbaeck · #2 10-23-2004, 01:08 PM

I'm a champ too. Guess it's kinda cheesy to do this after reading SSH and working hard on studying it. I'd probably have hit 3-4 right answers pre-SSH.

My short poker career can be divided in two. Pre and post SSH.

Mikey · #3 10-23-2004, 06:02 PM

the flop is T 9 x with one club and you have KJs of clubs.

On the turn falls a piece of cheese.

I'm taking the free card here, because that defeats the purpsose of raising on the flop to an improving turn card.
It ruins my effective odds and the purpose of my flop raise.

I'm essentially raising the flop to see 2 cards.

Also. There is almost a null chance of him laying down on the turn if he bet the flop.

What hands do you think he'll fold here on the turn.

I don't think the bet is correct.

What do others think?

Ed Miller · #4 10-23-2004, 06:07 PM

Also. There is almost a null chance of him laying down on the turn if he bet the flop.

If this were true, then betting would be wrong. But it isn't true.

Mikey · #5 10-23-2004, 06:13 PM

Ed the reason why I say this is because he bet the flop....

He bet the flop on a T 9 5 board and called a raise.

Now on the turn falls a 3. with 2 suits.

Its almost highly unlikey he's folding here and not seeing the river.

If he had checked...... the flop and you bet, then you can make an argument for betting the turn because the chances that he folds maybe be a tiny bit higher than null.

Would I be wrong to take a free river card and not bet the turn? How much of an error is this?

Ed Miller · #6 10-23-2004, 06:27 PM

Its almost highly unlikey he's folding here and not seeing the river.

I'm sorry Mikey, but that's just not true. I can't prove it to you other than to say, "Go try it out," but often the flop bettor will have a small pair or ace-high (especially online) and will fold it on the turn.

Frankly, I don't understand when people say stuff like this, because it flies totally in the face of all of my experience. People fold all the time on the turn after betting the flop. I'd suggest you watch online games for a while, note who bets the flop, and watch to see how often that player folds on the turn and river. You'll find that it happens frequently. Not all the time or even the majority of the time, but it's quite common.

Would I be wrong to take a free river card and not bet the turn? How much of an error is this?

If more than one player had called you on the flop, taking the free card would probably be better in general. So against one player taking a free card can be no disaster. But you will often win this hand without a showdown, so it is clearly right to bet again.

Mikey · #7 10-23-2004, 07:51 PM

"I'm sorry Mikey, but that's just not true. I can't prove it to you other than to say, "Go try it out," but often the flop bettor will have a small pair or ace-high (especially online) and will fold it on the turn."

I agree with this statement although I believe its being taken out of context when the flop is T 9 5r. This flop although it is rainbow hits many type of card combinations. That is why I feel it is essential to take the 2 free cards with the flop raise. You have to look at the board texture.

Some flop boards give you more leverage but with this board specifically because it touches many hand combinations I feel in my experience that by betting the turn almost defeats the purpose of the flop raise.

"People fold all the time on the turn after betting the flop."

This statement is not 100% true and I believe you can agree with me on that but, the percentage of the time when someone does fold on the turn is not when the board is coordiated like this and you have been bet into on the flop being the preflop agressor.

Masquerade · #8 10-24-2004, 01:08 AM

I'm with Mikey on this one. No-one comes out early betting a raised multi-way flop before the raiser with Ace high or a small pair and then calls a raise! If he was on some sort of draw or small pair he'd let the raiser bet it and call if it wasnt raised.

You have to put him on top pair, or maybe two pair at this point. Even if he does just have Ace high or a small pair he's still ahead of you and will win 75% of the time. The pot by now has got large, and its heads up. Its extremely unlikely that he's going to fold on the turn given his earlier play.

Mikey · #9 12-04-2004, 08:29 AM

I can't prove it to you other than to say, "Go try it out," but often the flop bettor will have a small pair or ace-high (especially online) and will fold it on the turn.

Hey Ed, I just want you to know that I have been out there and have been trying and you know what........ you're right it is working.
Thanks for the expert advice.

*Mikey

Rushmore · #10 12-04-2004, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, I don't understand when people say stuff like this, because it flies totally in the face of all of my experience. People fold all the time on the turn after betting the flop. I'd suggest you watch online games for a while, note who bets the flop, and watch to see how often that player folds on the turn and river. You'll find that it happens frequently. Not all the time or even the majority of the time, but it's quite common.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we agree that this changes fairly drastically when we reach middle and high stakes?

Sorry to muddy the waters, but I can see that you are right, in many games.

But in the vast majority of the games I play in, this guy's flop bet would generally mean something more than an underpair, especially with several players taking the flop.

This would not change the flop raise, of course. I just think it would make some argument for avoiding a trap and/or value betting HIS hand for him on the turn.