3betting with 77

pauliewalnuts · #1 09-14-2005, 03:25 AM

I had no reads on villian, as it was only his third hand at the table. Should I just fold PF against an unknown? After he caps, my hand obviously shrinks up a bit. Should I just fold the turn or is calling down acceptable here?

Party Poker (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Villian Raises, 4 Folds, Hero 3bets, 3 Folds, Villian Caps, Hero Calls[/i].

Flop: (4.5BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villian bets, Hero calls

Turn:(5.5BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villian bets, Hero calls

River:(7.5BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villian bets, Hero calls

Final Pot: 9BB

Bodhi · #2 09-14-2005, 03:35 AM

easy fold preflop.

Nick C · #3 09-14-2005, 03:36 AM

I think calling down is fine. Among other things, the wheel potential may be encouraging Villain to semibluff ace-high.

I wouldn't expect to win, though.

Preflop, I would have folded, but I'm not really sure what's best. The limit the hand takes place at (which I don't know) could affect what's best, too.

ebranig · #4 09-14-2005, 10:53 AM

Fold preflop.

Raise flop, or raise turn, and fold to 3.

brettbrettr · #5 09-14-2005, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I had no reads on villian

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is an easy fold.

#6 09-14-2005, 11:05 AM

With no read I say you have to fold. After the flop you didn't make your trips you have no reason to call this bet. Especially after the preflop action and again with no read.

sfer · #7 09-14-2005, 11:11 AM

There are a lot of ways to play it but I think this is fine.

Dariel86 · #8 09-14-2005, 11:27 AM

You could reraise this if you thought it were a steal attempt, but it probably isn't when he's raising from UTG

Kailia Marie · #9 09-14-2005, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.

Raise flop, or raise turn, and fold to 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi ebranig,

Once you make it to the turn, I think raising the turn (in what I'd assume is a free showdown play) is probably a mistake.

1) Raising costs 2 big bets when it's not entirely sure you are showdown committed in the first place.

2) Having to fold to a 3-bet takes away your chances of spiking a 7 on the river. Yes, it is rare, but it does happen enough times where it would/should make an impact in the "long run".

The main reason to raise turns in these types of hands are for free showdowns. The correct usage is when you have a marginal holding that you would call a river bet with anyways, but are positive enough that being three bet means you are beaten and can fold.

However, there are many cases where this free showdown play is NOT correct, mainly because you are not sure that you would call a river bet if faced with when. This is a completely different scenerio because it can save you up to a full big bet.

In some situations it would be correct to call the turn and fold the river. Yes, that sounds somewhat strange, but against certain players you can almost always fold this river. Even if you couldn't, you could still call down, which isn't significantly worse (if at all) then the free showdown play.

Also keep in mind that you may still get a free showdown without even having to raise the turn since many players become weak on the river and check a lot of hands they should be betting (which is part of the reason why some rivers can be folded even after calling a turn bet.)

As for this particular hand, with my experience in the Party 2/4 games, I would call/call/fold as a default postflop line on this board.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kailia

Kailia Marie · #10 09-14-2005, 11:36 AM

Hi everybody,

I'm a little suprised that everybody is against the preflop three bet. Yes, it is a bit unorthadox, but we're not required to play from a book, and believe it or not, it isn't much of a mistake if at all to do so here.

If a player would always raise all forms of AK and some forms of AQ,AJ,KQ, i.e. non-pair hands, then 77 is a favorite over a probable opening range for a typical player. Being capped of course is a different matter, but that is independent from the initial decision to three bet. 3-betting here becomes attractive if you can play well postflop (as most posters here should be able to) and if the opponent is weak and can be easily controlled and/or will misplay his hands.

While I think folding is fine, I don't think it is terrible to play this pot. I've certainly 3-bet hands like this before and have had good results/feelings about it. If 3-betting is a mistake, it can't be by a lot especially considering your preflop equity against a typical hand range is in your favor (though it may be skewed in the other direction because it beomes harder to play postflop).

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kailia