Semi-blind defense from a laggy EP raiser

baronzeus · #1 07-29-2005, 01:51 PM

Laggy dude but not out of line. The turn is either a raise or a call in my opinion. Thoughts?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ????

Piiop · #2 07-29-2005, 01:54 PM

Why are you playing this hand?

baronzeus · #3 07-29-2005, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you playing this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think when someone has a PFR above 15, he/she raises Ax or Kx so my Q9 usually has 2 live cards. Not playing this HU given 3.3:1 odds on my preflop call is bad IMO.

Edit: I can't imagine folding QTo in the BB against a laggy PFR, and I think Q9o is even better.

Piiop · #4 07-29-2005, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think when someone has a PFR above 15, he/she raises Ax or Kx so my Q9 usually has 2 live cards. Not playing this HU given 3.3:1 odds on my preflop call is bad IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok....well you said he's LAGy but not out of line, and now he has a PFR% above 15 and raises any A or any K?? Even still, he's raising from UTG+1 so it's obviously not a steal. I would fold preflop

W. Deranged · #5 07-29-2005, 02:04 PM

Why are you waiting for the turn here? My inclination is to check-raise the flop with the intention of:

-Bet-folding the turn if not three-bet
-Check-folding unimproved if three-bet

It seems to me that waiting until the turn to figure out if your hand is good just means that you are putting in double bets to figure out where you're at. Raising the turn may be trouble, as even a good king may only call down, in which case you're putting in a bunch of bets without having any idea of your status.

baronzeus · #6 07-29-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think when someone has a PFR above 15, he/she raises Ax or Kx so my Q9 usually has 2 live cards. Not playing this HU given 3.3:1 odds on my preflop call is bad IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok....well you said he's LAGy but not out of line, and now he has a PFR% above 15 and raises any A or any K?? Even still, he's raising from UTG+1 so it's obviously not a steal. I would fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

PFR 15 is laggy but not out of line. In my statement, I meant not that he raises Ax or Kx, but this is what his raises usually indicate.

Some people have different HU blind standards than others. I appreciate your opinion but HU I think I can play this hand against a PFR.

On another note, if there was one caller I'd fold here.

Any comments on the turn, oh great piiop?

johnnycakes · #7 07-29-2005, 02:10 PM

Q9o is the bottom of the range of hands you should be defending your blinds with.

When you're calling a raise that is coming from a non-total-maniac UTG+1, it's just a bad call. Fold pre-flop.

Anyway, you've called and the flop has been dealt. If you're going to continue, you need to bet or check-raise the flop.

The way you played it, you have shown no aggression on any street and the turn changed nothing. You still have second pair and no idea where you are. Since you've made it this far, your only hope is to check-raise the turn. Give up if he calls or raises. But, again, you should have never seen the turn.

lil' · #8 07-29-2005, 02:10 PM

Someone posted a similar hand yesterday, repeatedly checking a good but very vulnerable hand out of position. I'll say the same thing here that i said then...

Checking this twice is not the best play. If you're ahead (and a lot of times you will be), villain can easily check this through. Letting Q-Jo or something like that check this turn through would be bad.

Generally I check-raise the flop.

baronzeus · #9 07-29-2005, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Q9o is the bottom of the range of hands you should be defending your blinds with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree.

I also like a flop check/raise

PTjvs · #10 07-29-2005, 02:51 PM

You have several opportunities to take the lead in this hand, and I think you have to do it before a turn check/raise. I would either bet out the flop, check/raise the flop or check/call the flop & bet out the turn. Im only checking twice against the most manical of maniacs, with the intent of checkraising a big street, and even then not often.

jvs