Thought Smart Play at First, Now Don't

akudlac · #1 02-09-2005, 02:08 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter

SB (t1545)
Hero (t1146)
UTG (t2521)
Button (t2788)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t400</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t2788 (All-In)</font>

UTG and Button had been going at it constantly. I'd put them in the loose/aggressive category.

...?

david050173 · #2 02-09-2005, 05:13 PM

Has UTG been doing the miniraise a lot? With some players late in the SNG, that almost always means AA or KK. If I thought I was going to be heads up with the button, I am happy to make this call. If it is going to be 3 way with UTG it is a lot more border line. You are getting pretty low on chips (950) and if the Button and UTG have been playing a lot of pots you might not have a lot of stealing chances. On the other hand, if they are being reckless there is a good chance of one of them busting the other if you are patient.

Despos · #3 02-09-2005, 05:18 PM

With three positions paying out with 4 players remaining how could you not just let UTG and Button battle it out this hand and one take the other out then you get paid. Right?

11t · #4 02-09-2005, 05:39 PM

I'd call, you are getting too good of odds not too. If they are firing away at eachother the button could have done this with a low pp or a-x.

The only way I fold this is if the table was extremely tight and I got my BB 60%+ of the time and were able to steal almost every orbit.

I fold AK if there is an all in THEN a call, or if I am small/medium stacked and there is somebody about to go out on the next orbit.

david050173 · #5 02-09-2005, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With three positions paying out with 4 players remaining how could you not just let UTG and Button battle it out this hand and one take the other out then you get paid. Right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew UTG would call this is an easy fold. The chance that the button has AA or KK is low (UTG is much more likely) so if you call and UTG folds, you are a coinflip at worst with a pretty decent chance of dominating.

Despos · #6 02-09-2005, 05:58 PM

I think it's crazy to call here. The other two all in'ers, one will be out or severly crippled and out in the next couple of hands. AK is a strong hand but is still a draw against a possible pocket pair. If you call here and get busted out you get no money. Isn't the money what you play for? They are handing you third or better on a silver platter if you just fold.

BigHobo · #7 02-09-2005, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They are handing you third or better on a silver platter if you just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming that UTG will call, but he's not even remotely pot committed at this point. If UTG folds then Hero is still short stack and has given up an AK.

I call here. It is safe to assume that UTG will probably fold once he see that Hero is all-in so you're just going up against 1 guy with at worst a coinflip (yes, it's possible that he has AA or KK but I doubt it given the size of his raise). As short stack you have to take those odds.

Despos · #8 02-09-2005, 06:07 PM

Yes I am assuming that UTG will call. According to the original post, These two guy are loose players who are constantly battleing it out with each other. Given the info provided, why should now be any different?

spciii · #9 02-09-2005, 06:37 PM

Tough call here, but i say you push. A mindless all-in raise does not mean a monster IMHO. I think you have him beat. Also, at that level, you won't see a hand that good again most likely and the small blind will take another 100 next hand..
However, being that you're on the bubble, it complicates things a bit.
Good luck

david050173 · #10 02-09-2005, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I am assuming that UTG will call. According to the original post, These two guy are loose players who are constantly battleing it out with each other. Given the info provided, why should now be any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it is unlikley the previous confrontations have resulted in one calling another all in a whole lot. I think there is a difference between loose/agressive (ie playing too many hands and pushing them too hard) and reckless. The one other question is how many more hands of 200 BB are there left? Once it hits 300 your FE is really going to drop especially if you pay 1 more blind.