Post-Bike thread discussion (w/ Bart hopefully) - Page 2

Kaz The Original · #1 02-20-2005, 02:14 AM

That was a weird hand, the K10 vs ricks J9. I wonder what the size of the pot was on the river, and the two stack sizes. I'm pretty sure K10 guy pushed on the river and rick called, board was 108x9x, turn and river were spades as well as the flop.

Russ McGinley · #2 02-20-2005, 02:17 AM

Yeah he finally pushed all-in when Rick checked to him and he had made his 2nd nut flush on the river. Bart was saying that flat calling was bad because there were still 3 other people acting behind him and he was allowing them a chance to draw out on him for a minimal price. I don't think he wanted to risk a lot of money without a monster hand so he played weak tight.

Kaz The Original · #3 02-20-2005, 02:21 AM

There was alot of confusion on that hand because the announcers initially though that he flopped trips, when infact he floped top pair second kicker. This was no doubt not a fault of their own, they're simply working around the software.

The board was 108x, with one spade. I believe Rick led the flop and turn (which gave him a pair of 9's), and then check called the river (when the other guy pushed)

There was no flush draw on the board, so I wonder what busted draw he called him on? Or was the pot simply so large in relation to the bet that he had to call? Or did he have some physical tell? Or does he just suck? : )

Rick Nebiolo · #4 02-20-2005, 03:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That was a weird hand, the K10 vs ricks J9. I wonder what the size of the pot was on the river, and the two stack sizes. I'm pretty sure K10 guy pushed on the river and rick called, board was 108x9x, turn and river were spades as well as the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking and pot sizes were described in the "Rick" What were you thinking" thread.

~ Rick

3rdEye · #5 02-20-2005, 02:11 AM

I didn't watch much tonight, but they did mention 2+2, which I thought was cool.

BartHanson · #6 02-20-2005, 04:49 PM

Thanks for all the comments and feedback guys.

One of the most common things that I see suggested in these threads is the fact that pot size is not mentioned enough in the commentary. Obviously pot size is very important, especially in no limit, but people have to understand that I am only seeing what you see. If the dealer fails to announce the size of each bet I am guessing at pot size just like the audience. The dealers have gotten better about announcing bet sizes but since they do not normally call all the action in live games they sometimes forget to walk us through each bet at the "Live at the Bike Table".

The most important thing I was trying to get across last night was that at a 200 Max buy in NL table every thing should be fast played. At a bigger No limit game you might want to get cute with some plays and extract more money people. At a 200 game, and we saw a lot of examples of this last night, people are calling with ridiculous gut shots when they don't have odds and any single pairs. You need to put money in the pot when you have the best hand and make people pay for their bad calls. Flat calling in this game is almost entirely wrong in every situation. I couldnt believe the fact that K10 flat called Rick's flop bet and I think that it confused Rick and through him off of what Seat 1 held. You have to remember that Seat 1 flopped top pair with a good kicker and there were still 3 or 4 people to act behind him--RAISE!! This guy also flat called Pocket KK's pre flop on the button, and after flopping a monster hand-FLOP: 9d 10c Jd, again only flat called kings' flop bet allowing 89os to take the pot down when a seven hit the turn. Absolutely ridiculous.

I did give my buddy Albert a lot t of flack about his A 8 os calling a $100 turn bet with a gut shot. We couldnt see that the guy in the blind actually flopped a set of 5s and played the hand brilliantly. I think he reraised a little bit pre flop, bet $40 on the flop and $100 on the turn. Albert told me afterwards that he didnt think the guy in the blind had anything. This is a dumb way of thinking since the blind reraised pre flop and Albert still couldnt beat a hand with A high only and a kicker above 8. I mean, what did he think that the guy had, KQ, KJ?

Anyway I would like to start posting comments about night's show that I commentate. I hope that live at the bike is the start of something that will grow bigger and bigger.

Bart

Rick Nebiolo · #7 02-20-2005, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One of the most common things that I see suggested in these threads is the fact that pot size is not mentioned enough in the commentary. Obviously pot size is very important, especially in no limit, but people have to understand that I am only seeing what you see. If the dealer fails to announce the size of each bet I am guessing at pot size just like the audience. The dealers have gotten better about announcing bet sizes but since they do not normally call all the action in live games they sometimes forget to walk us through each bet at the "Live at the Bike Table".

[/ QUOTE ]

I mentioned this elsewhere (on the forum and/or in an email to E.D.) but perhaps the floor with the microphone (e.g., Tim Raynak) could feed this info back into the booth. Requiring that the players keep their stacks neat would also help in determining how deep everyone is - this is sort of a courtesy rule in no limit anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't believe the fact that K10 flat called Rick's flop bet and I think that it confused Rick and through him off of what Seat 1 held. You have to remember that Seat 1 flopped top pair with a good kicker and there were still 3 or 4 people to act behind him--RAISE!! This guy also flat called Pocket KK's pre flop on the button, and after flopping a monster hand-FLOP: 9d 10c Jd, again only flat called kings' flop bet allowing 89os to take the pot down when a seven hit the turn. Absolutely ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was a bit confused and described my thinking on the hand in a dedicated thread elsewhere on this sub forum (where someone asked). Sorry no link but I'm multi-tabling and I can hardly type [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

[ QUOTE ]
I did give my buddy Albert a lot t of flack about his A 8 os calling a $100 turn bet with a gut shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was Albert the guy who took seat two later in the evening?

~ Rick

PS BTW, how many times did you use the word "interesting" to describe a hand [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Kevmath · #8 02-20-2005, 07:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, how many times did you use the word "interesting" to describe a hand [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Bart did tone down on using "interesting". However, he replaced it with using "fireworks".

Last night's show was the first to have a really active interaction between 2+2 and the show, with a 200+ post in about 4 hours. Like I mentioned in an earlier thread, Bart did say that instant feedback would be a good idea. Of course, I know the 5 minute delay causes a problem, along with someone abusing it by spouting nonsense.

Kevin...

Michael Davis · #9 02-20-2005, 07:43 PM

I think you did a very good job. I do think having someone else at the table to register pot sizes would be a huge improvement. I don't see why you can't have a third (Bike employee, perhaps) at the table with headphones on.

-Michael

Rick Nebiolo · #10 02-20-2005, 10:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I do think having someone else at the table to register pot sizes would be a huge improvement. I don't see why you can't have a third (Bike employee, perhaps) at the table with headphones on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but this project is already very labor intensive. OTOH, a dealer with a ONE-WAY microphone could be instructed to verbally identify the size of the bets and raises and this could be a condition of the game (in addition to ones such as no player headphones allowed).

Also if a floorman like Tim Raynak did it, it would take away valuable time socializing with the cocktail waitresses (just kidding Tim [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

~ Rick