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#1
07-20-2005, 08:10 PM
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Should I take a last stab at it?
I'm a bit puzzeled about this hand, thought I might get some advice here.
Playing a short handed (6 players) 38$ SnG on Stars. 18 minutes in it, we're down to 5, I got 2400 chips (started with 1500) which is good for 2nd at the moment, but that doesn't really matter. I took down about four pots, havn't shown a hand yet. Villian is an EXTREMELY bad player, but at that time, all I knew of him is that he calls down alot of hands (on the verge of a certified calling station), he doesn't care, or know, about odds and he took some beating a couple rounds before this one, when he called down his hand against Aces, on a 3-way pot (which took us down to 5). He has about the starting 1500 chips after nearly doubling up early. I pick Jh9h on the button. Folded to me. I make it X3 BB (90 chips), which is my standard raise at that point. Villian calls from the SB, BB folds. The flop comes A102, one heart. Villian checks to me, and I'm pretty sure he missed the flop. Pot is 210, I bet 150, trying to represent an Ace. Villian insta-calls. Turn is another heart, giving me a flush draw, and I still don't think he has anything, just looking for a draw. He checks to me again, and I bet 350 (pot at 510). He insta-calls again. river bricks completely, nothing on the board. He checks to me again. What's my move here? I'm certain he doesn't have A2, or any ace, for that matter. He can't be slowplaying anything big, other than maybe 2-2. That leaves me with a broken draw of some sort, or K10/Q10/J10 for middle pair. Do I check behind, taking an almost certain beat for a hefty pot, or put him all in, assuming he can't call with his hand. I thought about faking a value bet, but that's probably way too fancy. Any thoughts? (And I'm a 2+2 newbie, so if i'm boring the hell out of ya, let the post die. Thank you  )
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#3
07-20-2005, 08:18 PM
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Re: Should I take a last stab at it?
You might be right, but shorthanded, I like to be aggressive early on. The blinds go up rather quickly and the orbits gets smaller and smaller, so I find that your image plays a big part. Playing aggressive early, at least as I see it, will earn me some much needed walks later on.
(or maybe i'm overanalyzing, trying to justify my preflop play, but what the hell [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])
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#4
07-20-2005, 10:02 PM
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Re: Should I take a last stab at it?
What are you doing trying to bluff a calling station on all streets? He might call you down even on the river with just king high, that's what calling stations do and that's why you dont bluff them, he will pay you off when you have a real hand.
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#5
07-21-2005, 01:21 AM
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Re: Should I take a last stab at it?
[ QUOTE ]
What are you doing trying to bluff a calling station on all streets? He might call you down even on the river with just king high, that's what calling stations do and that's why you dont bluff them, he will pay you off when you have a real hand. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. Part of the problem is that with his style of play you can't really put him on a narrow range of hands with any degree of confidence. OK, you took a shot at the flop, but that didn't chase him off. Now you're working a draw, why not take the free card(s) and milk chips off when you have something.
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#6
07-21-2005, 01:34 AM
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Re: Should I take a last stab at it?
Hey Yuv, Ma Kore?
You say about villain that "he calls down alot of hands (on the verge of a certified calling station)". That's the worst kind of opponent to be aggressive against, or to represent hands to. It's basically an opponent to play tight and value bet against (especially when blinds are still pretty low). Since you don't have a hand, from beginning to end, trying to push him out will just cost you too much and will gain you little. Against such an opponent you win by playing a patient game, waiting for a good enough hand against him, or letting some other player to bluff him to death (or to value bet him good...) and by that increasing your EV in the tourney, since it's very good for you when players are playing badly against each other when you're not involved. That's the nice thing about SNGs.
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#7
07-21-2005, 02:55 AM
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I didn\'t explain myself very well.
He's not retarded, he's just playing what must be a losing strategy. He like to see flops, he likes to see turns and he likes to see rivers. He's not blind though. If he faces an all in with K high, he won't call.
I think I gave a pretty poor description of what I feel is a bit more interesting situation, but so be it, I'll work on my posting skills [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. I checked behind, he had JQo for queen high and took the pot. I had a great read on his hand, and I didn't use it wisely enough...
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#8
07-21-2005, 03:40 AM
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Re: I didn\'t explain myself very well.
[ QUOTE ]
I checked behind, he had JQo for queen high and took the pot. I had a great read on his hand, and I didn't use it wisely enough... [/ QUOTE ] Well it's not surprising at all that he had nothing more than a gut-shot and was calling you down, according to your very description of his style. But that still doesn't make pushing the river correct, or playing aggressively in general against him. There's a very good chance he's folding this particular hand he had, but that's results oriented thinking. Suppose he has a different hand, as poor as K2, or T8, or A3, whatever, all are possible. But with these hands he actually catches some piece of the board, and could feel more gutsy about calling a big bet even on the river (especially if he improves to some crazy 2-pair or whatever, that you can never put him on). Many calling stations by their nature tend to think that others bluff them all the time. And since his range is very wide, as with such players, you have very little information about the actual hand he has (regardless of any general read) and how far he will be willing to go with it, plus you have very little folding equity, which is often the most important part of equity in such situations. These are the reasons why being too agressive in such spots is not recommended and people are not crazy about it here.
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#9
07-21-2005, 03:47 AM
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Re: I didn\'t explain myself very well.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I checked behind, he had JQo for queen high and took the pot. I had a great read on his hand, and I didn't use it wisely enough... [/ QUOTE ] Well it's not surprising at all that he had nothing more than a gut-shot and was calling you down, according to your very description of his style. But that still doesn't make pushing the river correct, or playing aggressively in general against him. There's a very good chance he's folding this particular hand he had, but that's results oriented thinking. Suppose he has a different hand, as poor as K2, or T8, or A3, whatever, all are possible. But with these hands he actually catches some piece of the board, and could feel more gutsy about calling a big bet even on the river (especially if he improves to some crazy 2-pair or whatever, that you can never put him on). Many calling stations by their nature tend to think that others bluff them all the time. And since his range is very wide, as with such players, you have very little information about the actual hand he has (regardless of any general read) and how far he will be willing to go with it, plus you have very little folding equity, which is often the most important part of equity in such situations. These are the reasons why being too agressive in such spots is not recommended and people are not crazy about it here. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I guess you're right. I didn't think the play really hurt me, though. Showing down that I can bet with nothing really helped me later on in the tournament. After about 48 hours of play in Stars, I must say, i'm not impressed by the level of play there [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Thanks for the reply. I guess I was being too results oriented.
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