Rate how I played KK

DVC Calif · #1 11-05-2004, 03:20 PM

Reagrdless of results, please comment on how I played this hand. I'm especially interested to find leaks in my betting.

Thanks, Steve

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

MP3 (t1220)
CO (t900)
Button (t1325)
SB (t1115)
BB (t875)
UTG (t1240)
UTG+1 (t1045)
Hero (t2230)
MP2 (t1930)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to t90, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t90, CO folds, Button calls t90, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t315) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t300, MP3 calls t300, Button folds.

Turn: (t915) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t830, MP3 calls t830 (All-In).

River: (t2575) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2575
Main Pot: t2575 (t2575), between MP3 and Hero. > Pot won by MP3 (t2575).

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Kd (one pair, kings).
MP3 has Qh As (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: MP3 wins t2575.

Bernas · #2 11-05-2004, 03:45 PM

I like the way you played it.
Any time you can get a player to commit all his chips as a big underdog then you have done something right. This is exactly what you wanted even if the result is wrong.

Chief911 · #3 11-05-2004, 04:01 PM

Hard to say you played that incorrectly, although it sure looks like he was trapping you with the flat call on the flop of a very big bet.

If you are willing to take that against a possible set or straight, then you made a good play. And I'd probably make this play anyhow, as you have a hard time putting him on J9 and calling that kind of raise preflop. And TT and QQ most likely would pop you back on the flop. So based on the information he was giving you, I have no issue with the play.

Sometimes people hit 3 outers. =/

Nick

Lloyd · #4 11-05-2004, 04:24 PM

I don't see anything that you did necessarily wrong. You made a proper pre-flop bet, you felt like you needed to protect your hand and made an appropriate protection-size bet on the flop and the turn. Your opponent was way behind and got lucky.

I'm not sure if you had to make such a large bet on the flop though. Unless you're opponent has AA, QQ, or TT you surely have the best hand. There are no flush draws and only a weak straight draw given that you hold two of the kings.

The range of hands he most likely holds where you are ahead (you're behind on the above and probably going to lose all your chips) includes a smaller pocket pair, AQ, AJ, A10 with the latter two (AJ, A10) more unlikely the better a player he is. So on the flop he has at most 5 outs if he's holding AQ or A10. With 5 outs he's about a 8-1 dog to hit on the turn. Therefore, you don't need to make a pot size bet. If you bet half the pot he still doesn't have proper odds to call holding any of the hands where he is behind and if he's ahead with QQ or TT you're just plain out of luck and hopefully an ace will hit the board giving you some chance to back down). When he calls the flop bet I'm putting him most likely on AQ or A10 with AJ being a very remote possibility that I would welcome.

When the river comes a blank you're in almost the same boat. Now it's possible that he has a flush draw if holding AQs. If you made a half-pot size bet on the flop, the pot would now be T630. Now I would say he possibly has 14 outs making him about a 2.5 to 1 dog. I would make about a pot-size bet here. But now you've put T945 in the pot instead of T1130 and you've made it more appealing for him to make a bad call on the flop. If he hits on the river(or if he was ahead the whole time) he's going to push and you probably have to call.

The advantage of making a smaller bet on the flop is that it's easier for a lesser player to call the half-pot size bet versus the pot-size bet, even if they are not getting proper odds in either situation. This will get more chips in the pot for you. And chances are you're going to win this hand.

But I want to re-emphasize that I don't necessarily think you did anything wrong. In poker, there's usually more than one way to play a hand. In one situation I may play it the way I described and in another the way you described. And at the end of the day there's not much you can do about someone willing to make calls when they have the worst of it and get lucky.

Bernas · #5 11-05-2004, 04:40 PM

He had a 5 outer.

UOPokerPlayer · #6 11-05-2004, 05:11 PM

Exactly how i'd play it. Took that same line about 5 times out of the 6 kk i was dealt last night.

RavenJackson · #7 11-05-2004, 06:16 PM

Nice play. I would have uttered "crap" when the river hit; however, I would love that type of action on all my KK.

Malcom Reynolds · #8 11-05-2004, 06:23 PM

With the blinds so low in a deep stacked tournament, isn't there an argument for limping here?

I'm just asking... I'm not really knowledgable enough to defend the concept.

Sklansky writes:
"No-limit hold 'em is different. The best players should be doing a lot of limping, even with mediocre hands. The Gap Concept doesn't apply (preflop) in the early rounds where the stack size is great compared to the blinds...Before the flop...implied odds and superior skill allow you to limp with lots of hands with decent prospects whether or not players have limped in front of you."

Lloyd · #9 11-05-2004, 07:42 PM

I would never limp with KK. Doing so allows weak aces into the pot. You can easily turn a KK into 72 because you allowed an A2 to call and he hits the flop. Raising lets you know where others stand since to call a raise they should have a better hand than to simply limp in. It makes it easier to play post-flop.

What Sklansky is referring to is limping in with "mediocre hands". Certainly, KK is not mediocre. He's talking about small pocket pairs, suited connectors, and the like. Not a premium holding.

DVC Calif · #10 11-05-2004, 08:40 PM

Thanks to all the replies. I probably should have exercised more caution betting on the turn with a 1/2 or 2/3 pot bet. I was trying to win the pot right there but should have given more thought to what Villain might have been holding.

The good news is that even though I lost that hand, I continued to play well and won my entry into PP's Million Dollar Guaranteed. This was a $10 satellite into the December tourney. 140 players today and top two get the entry.

I tried to play tight and aggressive, with timely blind steals (and made only 2-3 suckouts [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ). Thanks to everyone on this board for posting all their great advice. Hope I can make the money in the next round.

Thanks, Steve

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