How much money do you need?

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
So if you're below average, you're poor? Hardly. You need to learn some facts before you make these wonderful claims. The average income in the US is WAY above the poverty line.

And are you further claiming, that an economy is good only if everyone has the same amount of assets/income? Why is that necessary? I don't begrudge rich people what they have. I'm happy with my lot in life. (tip: average and median are different concepts, you might want to investigate further [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're below average, yes, I would consider it poor. Here's why:

1. The government determines what the "poverty" line is, and in my opinion, it's set way too low. Hell, the majority of people making an average income have difficulty affording to purchase a home and live a life free of enormous debt (but some of this is due to our overconsumption and greed, and people just having trouble managing their finances effectively)

2. I believe that a lot of our goods and services are priced based on the average income, so that means that if you make less than average, you are unable to live an "average" life based on inflation, and thus are "poor" because of it. This does not tranlsate into being homeless, or penniless, just a more difficult problem of owning property and being able to make reasonable purchases without resorting to credit (which just pushes you further into poverty)


[ QUOTE ]

In all three examples, you don't have to buy the product. If you get "ripped off" more than once, it's your fault.

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies tend to copycat one another. If Company A is reducing their costs by giving you 42 in a box instead of 50, other companies are going to go along and do the same thing. Even with all the choices out there, you're still stuck dealing with it, and not purchasing the product or service from ANYONE isn't going to help the matter unless enough people do this.

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
I would need about 3.9M after taxes in order to safely say I will never even think about working again (at least not for financial reasons).

This assumes that my family and I could live off of 100k/year (a significant raise compared to my current income) for the next 70 years. I assumed that I could earn an average of 6% on my investments (I consistently do much better than this) and I assumed that the govt would take 25% of my investment earnings and that inflation would be about 2.5% annually.

This is a very safe estimate. If I take 10 years off my life expectancy (assume I'll only live until 87 instead of 98), and assume 8% returns and 2% inflation (still pretty conservative) then I'll only need 2.4M.

2-3M is a pretty good estimate if your lifestyle can be supported by 100k/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your feeling of what is conservative with respect to inflation is way wrong (my earlier estimate was also too small, but not by as much). Over the past 50 years the average rate of inflation has been about 4.1%.

That causes your 3.9 million nest egg to disapear after just over 40 years.

[Iconoclastic]

I would need 100 Million to live comfortably for the rest of my life.

And America isn't an economic system in of itself. America is rich because it keeps other countries poor.

[Bobby Cannoli]

[ QUOTE ]
I would need 100 Million to live comfortably for the rest of my life.

And America isn't an economic system in of itself. America is rich because it keeps other countries poor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.

Germany

Japan

Yep, kept em poor. There ya go

[brokedickrooster]

I'm 42. One million dollars, post taxes, and I'm done. I figure conservatively that I can get 60k per year from very safe investments, lose 25% of that to taxes, and live on the other 45k without a problem. It wouldn't be in the US, but I've never planned on retiring here.

[cero_z]

Hi FM,

I actually come to this discussion with a little bit of familiarity with this topic: after many years of hard work and shrewd investments, I'm happy to report that I have enough money that I don't ever have to work another day in my life.

As long as I die next Thursday.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
Capitalism sucks. I could make a million dollars a day, FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, and not have as much money as Bill Gates has right now.

In order for someone to be rich, many others must be poor. While I realize we have it quite well here in the States, there's still plenty of corruption, and room for improvement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker tournaments suck.

In order for the winner to take a large portion of the prize pool, many many other players must go home with nothing.

[HentaiGaijin]

[ QUOTE ]
5% interest after inflation sucks. after the real estate bubble your american dollars are going to crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in Texas. Real Estate here is cheap as hell.

[HentaiGaijin]

[ QUOTE ]

In order for someone to be rich, many others must be poor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must have missed that in economics class. Oh wait, that's because it has nothing to do with capitalism what so ever.

In mercantilist systems yes, someone is rich and someone else is poor. This plagued the middle ages and the Rennaisance period. Capitalism, by definition, allows for everyone to be rich. Capitalism is about creating value from unrefined, requisite elements. Gates, for example, created value by developing software. Food companies create value by creating finished goods from ingredients of individually lesser value.

In practice, not everyone becomes rich. Some people don't know how to create value. Some people aren't motivated. Some people are mercantilists (goods traders) who don't really understand what capitalism is. Although we are taught that "capitalism" is a key element of American society, we are not taught what it really means and how it works.

[HentaiGaijin]

[ QUOTE ]
We live in a society where we are taken advantage of by the minority upper class who control the majority of the money and assets. And we are too apathetic and comfortable to fix the system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apathetic and comfortable? Perhaps because our standard of living is so high that instead of tilling fields in near-slavery we are able to play poker all day long or sit in climate controlled offices in front of computer screens communicating freely formed and freely spoken ideas with no agency to regulate such transactions?

And you're sad because you don't have a private jet?