Party .5/1 hand, from a new player's perspective

[calmasahinducow]

Did I play this ok?
Blah converter doesnt work for Omaha or is broken.

***** Hand History for Game 2180950679 *****
$0.5/$1 Omaha Hi/Lo - Thursday, June 09, 16:32:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 27459 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: sit_ubu_sit ( $36.64 )
Seat 4: kalgary ( $22.62 )
Seat 10: Kerrigan_ ( $37.25 )
Seat 3: jimharbaugh ( $18.39 )
Seat 9: bebebibibaba ( $17 )
Seat 6: petroglyphs ( $25.25 )
Seat 8: sunshine_AA ( $7.5 )
Seat 7: pepperli ( $26.5 )
Seat 1: lvrounder ( $24.25 )
Seat 5: Pelham007 ( $25 )
jimharbaugh posts small blind [$0.25].
kalgary posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jimharbaugh [ 4d 5d 7s 6s ]
pepperli calls [$0.5].
sunshine_AA calls [$0.5].
bebebibibaba calls [$0.5].
Kerrigan_ folds.
lvrounder folds.
sit_ubu_sit folds.
jimharbaugh calls [$0.25].
kalgary checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 8s, Kc ]
jimharbaugh checks.
kalgary bets [$0.5].
pepperli folds.
sunshine_AA calls [$0.5].
bebebibibaba calls [$0.5].
jimharbaugh calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
jimharbaugh checks.
kalgary checks.
sunshine_AA bets [$1].
bebebibibaba calls [$1].
jimharbaugh raises [$2].
kalgary calls [$2].
sunshine_AA calls [$1].
bebebibibaba folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
jimharbaugh bets [$1].
kalgary calls [$1].
sunshine_AA calls [$1].
jimharbaugh shows [ 4d, 5d, 7s, 6s ] a full house, Fives full of fours.
jimharbaugh shows 8,7,6,5,4 for low.
kalgary shows [ 8h, Js, 2d, Ah ] two pairs, eights and fives.
kalgary shows 8,5,4,2,A for low.
sunshine_AA shows [ Kh, 5c, 2h, 3c ] a full house, Fives full of kings.
sunshine_AA shows 8,5,4,3,2 for low.
sunshine_AA wins $6.88 from the main pot with a full house, Fives full of kings.
kalgary wins Lo ($6.87) from the main pot with 8,5,4,2,A.

[toots]

Well, at first maybe. About the only time I'd play a medium wrap like that is from the blinds, so that much is ok.

The flop hit you pretty good for catching a draw to the sucker end of the wrap. But when the turn paired the board, you pretty much got enrolled in "why you don't play middle cards" school. From here on out, you have to play extremely carefully.

Indeed, sunshine waking up was a very clear message that you might be beat here. He didn't bet the flop, but he woke up when the board paired. Why? Because he has one of:

58, 5K, 88, or KK

any of which have you beat, and there's essentially no way to catch up. From this point out, the only reason to stay in this hand is if you have a good reason to believe that his turn bet was a semi-bluff.

I have to admit two things: 1) This is a real hard hand to let go of. You had a bunch of outs to the river to fill up, but none of them would have put you ahead if sunshine has what he's representing. 2) I also have an enormously hard time dropping that hand on the turn, and have probably lost more money than I want to admit check/calling down to the river just to be shown that I was drawing dead.

At the very most, given sunshine's turn bet, if I decided to chase that to the river, I'd check/call the turn and river. Having the low end of a boat like that just isn't very strong.

[Beavis68]

fold pre-flop.

fold the turn.

[muse21]

This reminds me of a story I read. I think is was in SuperSystem.

A player turns to Sklansky and says, "How would you have played that hand?"

Sklansky answers, "I don't know, I've never played a hand like that."

[kyleb]

Ugh, that hand will get you in a lot of trouble by making several second-best hands for high and low.

[GooperMC]

Pre-flop: Toss it. Is isn't even close to worth 1/2 a SB.

Flop: Toss it. Almost all of your "outs" will either
1) Make a low
2) Make a non-nut hand.
Your only clean outs are the 9's and if you hit a 9 you are still going to have to dodge a low card or flush card on the river.

Turn: Maybe worth a call?. Trips are fairly weak in O8 (especially turned trips) and you have no kicker to go with it.

River: Check call. There now a low on board and you are still playing this hand 3 way which means that you could get sandwiched between 2 bigger hands.

I am assuming that you are coming from a HE background. If you are just remember that hand values go way down in O8. Anything that is a non-nut hand should be played very carefully.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre-flop.

fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
for got to add, fold the flop.

[PollyEmory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold pre-flop.

fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
for got to add, fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I wouldn't put it as abruptly as beavis, I think there's a good argument for folding the flop even with the straight draw. I like that the flop's rainbow, but there are two low cards on board. It is only by some serious serious help will you get any piece of the low.

And if a 7 comes you might be looking at splitting the high too cause someone playing a hand that contains a 4-6 is def a possibility.

I wouldn't have made up the small blind either, but that's cause my post-flop play is suck heard 'round the world. With good control post-flop you can make up the SB with this, but then you can make up the SB with tons of trashier hands if you're good. I'm not good.

And, I really don't want to offend, but you could use some work too as your check-raise on the turn indicates. As you raised, did you give any thought to what hand might be betting into you? 5 is right in the playable zone in O8. Even assuming best case scenario that he only had the other five and not a made boat, did you wonder what his kicker might be? Knowing me, I'd have folded the flop (and that's possibly too weak-tight on a rainbow board) but if I'd gotten to the turn I'd have prob called down but feeling really sick about it. With that kind of aggression shown on the turn, sunshine was prob all "WTF?" when you showed.
You got lucky that kal didn't raise you, as it's pretty clear from the turn action that the two of you are fighting over the high and chances of getting an extra BB out of both of you are good. And the reason you got lucky is because you'd have prob reraised and cost yourself more money. Yeah, poker gods do kick us in the nuts -- but sometimes they smile when they do it.

--Polly

Edited to add: You made a mistake of overvaluing your hand. Can I ask how long you've been playing? I remember losing quite a few bets in the first few weeks after I switched from hold'em cause I thought any boat or any set is the sun and the moon and the stars.

[calmasahinducow]

[ QUOTE ]


Edited to add: You made a mistake of overvaluing your hand. Can I ask how long you've been playing? I remember losing quite a few bets in the first few weeks after I switched from hold'em cause I thought any boat or any set is the sun and the moon and the stars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, I've been playing for two days after playing Hold 'Em exclusively for a year. I'm trying to learn the game as cheaply as I can and this was the second session I've ever played. I think I'm about to order Ray Zee's book as this is fun stuff.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]

Haha, I've been playing for two days after playing Hold 'Em exclusively for a year. I'm trying to learn the game as cheaply as I can and this was the second session I've ever played. I think I'm about to order Ray Zee's book as this is fun stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lesson 1: Tighten up. I mean WAAAY tighten up. You make a lot of money from people playing crappy starting hands. Don't be one of those people. Only play hands that have good chances to make nut hands. Coordinated hands are important. Nut lows with counterfeit protection are good too.

Lesson 2: Watch out for the nuts. With 4 cards in everyone's hand, they have 6 different combos of hands to play. If the board is paired, chances are that a full house is out there. If the board is suited, chances are that a flush is out there. If you only play nut hands and nut draws, you won't be giving that much up, especially at low limit Omaha where people will pay you off extra with non-nut hands.

Lesson 3: Play to scoop. While hands like 6789 can make nut high hands, there will be a low possible if it's out there. Devalue your high only holdings when 2 or 3 low cards flop. Scooping the pot isn't twice as good as splitting, it's more like 4 times better than splitting.

Good luck!