Pot sized bet overused in NL poker?

[trumpman84]

When reading comments on NL hands, I often see "You should've bet the pot on the flop etc.

In most situations I think of, a 1/2 - 3/4 sized bet seems to be appropriate and is the size I'm more comfortable using.

If you raise with big cards, miss and want to make a continuation bet - 1/2 pot is normally right to get the best odds on your bet (only has to take it down 1 out of every 3 times)

If you raise with a big hand and do not improve on the flop, it seems a 1/2 - 3/4 pot sized bet would cose you less chips for those times you meet a lot of resistance and have to let it go.

If you flop a big hand that has redraws or is not vulnerable to the next card off, you could bet 1/2 - 3/4 instead of the whole pot. The smaller bet will make people more willing to call you with almost dead hands or make a play at you.

If on the turn, you have a marginal or big hand and you think your opponent is on a draw that will beat your hand if it gets there, 3/4 of the pot is enough to give him incorrect odds on his draw, but enough to make him maybe want to draw incorrectly. You don't want people to fold their draws, you want them to make incorrect calls. If you overbet the pot to make them fold, you are making them play correctly. If you bet 3/4, they may call only getting 2.5/1 thinking they have implied odds, but you can kill those by folding if their draw comes. Also, it's a smaller bet so you can get away from your marginal hands easier if your read of a draw is wrong.

The only times I really use pot sized bets is when I have the nuts or near nuts and I think my opponent has a very strong hand also, or if I flop a monster on a draw heavy board QQ on a QJ9 with two suits for example.

I just don't like too much of a bet in when a raise would really be really bad for me or I would hate to put in a full pot bet with a monster and have everyone fold when a 1/2 - 3/4 could of possibly got someone to come along with a dead hand or gotten someone to make a play at me.

Thoughts?

Where do you find such suggestions ? I basically agree that a potsized bet is the right thing when you don't want much action. If you are 90% sure that you have the best hand now, but also 90% sure that someone has a strong draw...

I definetly see people using the "bet pot button" too much and I find it very annoying. Although it is a huge clue as to thier skill of poker playing!

buffro
patexashold-em.com

here is the greatest reason for using 1/2 pot bets or SMALLER. Usually... if you're a descent player, you are either WAY ahead (TPTK vs TPrag) or WAY behind (TPTK vs set). In both instances you want callers and/or raisers; not folders. Pot size bets don't allow your oppenent to make mistakes (I call it reverse value betting when someone bets the whole pot).

Let's say you have AK on a K 10 7 board and you bet the pot... KJ/K9/A-10 should insta-fold... mean-while, 77 is licking his chops (P.S. If you run into QJ... oh well). Pot size bets are for ammatures, bots, and fans of the WPT.

[djoyce003]

you couldn't be more wrong. As long as the board is rainbow and drawless its ok to bet small...for instance AA on a 2 7 Q rainbow flop. If there are flush draws and straight draws possible then betting half the pot is giving your opponent reasonably good odds to call....as long as you are going to pay off if he hits, which most people do. Betting full pot gives him pretty terrible odds, and lots of these guys will call full pot bets on draws....you make lots of money when they do this....always betting half pot as a default line is bad poker. If you think the average donk at party will fold K2 on a KQ4 board then you are giving them too much credit.

[Socko669]

I agree. The whole theory behind pot size bets is typically to price out another players draw. Of course, there are many players who will draw at any price, but that is irrelevant in the long term. I see a lot of players making pot size bets as bluff bets, especially on an online site has a bet the pot feature (which i hate as well). In many circumstances a 1/2 or 3/4 pot size bet may still be enough to give the villain the right price on a draw, especially if there are other people in the pot and implied odds come into play.

[Rotterdaum]

With only one other opponent and one draw on the table and a good hand, you want to entice him to call you. If there is only one draw and only one opponent 1) it's unlikely he's on it 2) it's unlikely that he will hit.

With more than one opponent or more than one draw on the table, you want to bet bigger, pot size or even more if you think your hand is good at the moment. If there are 3-4+ people in the pot, betting half pot won't cut a lot of them and you'll have a much greater chance of being beat. Plus if one calls, the rest will be getting progressively better pot odds.

I think all bet sizes, from neglectable to gargantuan find common practice in the game in appropriate situations

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here is the greatest reason for using 1/2 pot bets or SMALLER. Usually... if you're a descent player, you are either WAY ahead (TPTK vs TPrag) or WAY behind (TPTK vs set). In both instances you want callers and/or raisers; not folders. Pot size bets don't allow your oppenent to make mistakes (I call it reverse value betting when someone bets the whole pot).

Let's say you have AK on a K 10 7 board and you bet the pot... KJ/K9/A-10 should insta-fold... mean-while, 77 is licking his chops (P.S. If you run into QJ... oh well). Pot size bets are for ammatures, bots, and fans of the WPT.

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Not to mention people with top pair playing against a potential flush draw.

But how often does that happen?

[gomberg]

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I think all bet sizes, from neglectable to gargantuan find common practice in the game in appropriate situations

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This is what a good NL player would say. Figure out your most +EV play and do it. Bet the most they will call incorrectly or bet more to get them off a hand that beats yours, or bet less to induce a raise, or make a bad call that they wouldn't have otherwise if you bet larger. Just balance some information hiding if you need to. There is no default bet size. I've been in many situations where I min-raise to push in overbet the pot 4x with many different hands. That's the art to the game.

Induce your opponents to make mistakes...

[trumpman84]

I agree with most of the responses, but the biggest mistake I see from NL players is if they have AQ or something on a Q high board on the turn and they think their opponent is on a flush draw, they will often bet the pot or overbet the pot by a large margin. Any decent player here of course is going to fold their draw getting very bad odds. Most inexperienced players will think they have accomplished their goal in getting the other player to fold their draw.

But wait....the object of poker is to get your opponent to make incorrect decisions. If you bet the pot or more than the pot, and they fold their draw, which a lot of players do, you made them play correctly by folding their draw...they are no longer making wrong decisions. Not to mention the times you bet your top pair $50 into a $25 pot to get your opponent to "fold his draw" then you get raised.......ooops.