Stud/8: How Should I Play 6th and 7th on this hand?

PokrLikeItsProse · #1 08-23-2005, 11:13 PM

I started with 456 suited.

On fourth, I caught the 7 of my suit to get four to a straight flush with very live flush and straight draws. On opponent was clearly chasing a flush draw, the other a low-only hand.

Skip ahead to sixth street. I catch an 8 to make a straight (non-flush). My opponent drawing to a flush paired his board on fifth then made open trips on sixth, but he obviously does not have a full house. He will jam the river whether or not he makes a full house trying to get me to fold my straight. My opponent with low draw has made a six-low that is clearly a lock and he will also jam 6th and 7th. The pot is fairly large because I was very aggressive with my hand on early streets (not sure of the exact size, but it was multiple bets on third and a couple of players chased low draws until fifth before dropping out).

Mr. Trips bets out and the low raises him, so it is two bets to me. How do I play this?

grb137 · #2 08-23-2005, 11:37 PM

fold 6th - battling for half the pot sucks. The fact that he's got draws to boats and flushes makes it not worth the trouble inho

bigredlemon · #3 08-23-2005, 11:39 PM

You seem to have omitted a lot of important details. What cards are out? What was the action? What were your positions?

Bremen · #4 08-23-2005, 11:41 PM

Assume 22 cards seen total, all his outs are live. So he'll draw out 1/3 of the time on the river. Assuming 6th and 7th are capped regardless you will win 8 bets on average while putting in 8. Given that his hand likely has some dead outs you'd actually be making money calling down.

I'm assuming he dosn't have a 4 flush here either for that matter... you really need to provide more info. But if as you say its a very large pot you almost certainly have odds to call down.

PokrLikeItsProse · #5 08-24-2005, 04:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to have omitted a lot of important details. What cards are out? What was the action? What were your positions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, this is going from memory. I was driving the action until 6th, when they both made hands. The guy with trips was first to act and bet out and the low raised him, so it was two bets to me. I recall that my straight flush outs were definitely live. I know that some of his flush and boats outs were taken, but there weren't a ton of them taken out. He was smart enough to not chase a flush draw with too many cards out, so he was not live. The low didn't have more than two of any suit showing so didn't have a flush.

The way I saw it, I could either fold or not fold. Given the option of not folding, I could either reraise trying to see if I could get the trips to lay down on sixth or I could call the two bets because I wasn't sure what the right action was. Either way, if I am going to not fold, I should see it through to the end, but I should just call down, because three-betting on seventh may spoke the trips if he doesn't make a boat.

In real life, I folded because I didn't have the necessary conviction to go with my read that the trips had been chasing a flush because I hated the idea that I would possibly be calling 8 bets on sixth and seventh drawing nearly dead if my read was wrong (but my read turned out to be right). It's one of my failings that I sometimes wimp out with medium-strength hands when faced with strong multi-way action, even though I have solid, logical reasons to believe that I probably have the best hand, or at least a strong equity interest in the pot.

Bogglor · #6 08-24-2005, 09:59 AM

The only thing I question here is that you "know" the guy has a 6 low. The only way I think you could "know" for sure that someone had a 6 low is if they had like A236 up or 2346. One brick or one card above 6 in their board puts the whole thing in question. It's one thing to know if you're beat for low (and really, beating a 87 low is not hard) but putting him specifically on a 6 low seems tough unless his board was extremely threatening.

Now, that said, I think you made the right move. Open trips probably doesn't have a FH, but he might make one. You might improve to a flush but it might not be good enough to win. Your SF draw is a 2 outer. And really, if the other guy going low is raising and you have 678 up, he doesn't want you to fold. With the other guy having open trips up and him likely having lower cards up than you, he has board lock. He's hoping you think you can win high with a straight and is jamming you, as he should, with his board lock low. This is one of the cases where making a hand can actually cost you more money and you're putting 4 bets in on 6th and 7th probably to only make it back _if you're lucky_. You can not get put into these situations. Now, had the low not raised on 6th street, you can evaluate your clean outs (how many 3's to make a 76 low, how many flush cards, etc.) and you'll almost always call at the least. But I think you actually made the right play here in the face of the betting action. Again, you haven't said what cards the low had up so my analysis is partially blind, but it definitely smells like a fold.

Nick_Foxx · #7 08-24-2005, 11:31 AM

I haven't read the other replies, but I would 3-bet sixth each and every time... if you are sure Mr. Trips isn't full, there is no reason to fold, as I'm sure the pot is enormous at this point... you might as well announce that you have a made hand and will be showing down regardless of subsequent action