a non thinking boring hand

[@bsolute_luck]

love the flop donkbet [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] c/r is folding too many hands. donkbet a rag flop with a scare card into a preflop 3-bettor- woohoo! we'll get called down or raised by a premium pair.

i like bet/call, check/call, bet/fold

If we bet/call on the flop, isn't there a danger of the villain checking behind on the turn with 88-KK?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
If we bet/call on the flop, isn't there a danger of the villain checking behind on the turn with 88-KK?

[/ QUOTE ]
He's not raising the flop for a freecard with these hands. Why would he with 2 outs?

I was responding to Absolute's post. I was thinking that by calling his raise on the flop, he may be scared out of betting the turn when we check to him.

Maybe this is why a c/call - c/call - bet/fold line is better than donking the flop...?

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
The standard line for this situation is WA/WB. Check/call, check/call, bet. This way you gain the most of KK-88.

[/ QUOTE ]

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I was responding to Absolute's post. I was thinking that by calling his raise on the flop, he may be scared out of betting the turn when we check to him.

Maybe this is why a c/call - c/call - bet/fold line is better than donking the flop...?

[/ QUOTE ]

here's my line of thinking if we donk:
villain with a premium pair between A and 7 will think "he'd check/raise me with the A or wait for a more expensive street". so they'll take 2 lines: call down with WA/WB line or they'll raise thinking we're full of it.

so we come to the turn if he raised and we call: they'll bet the turn thinking "my hand is best and i'll check behind the river anyways if called or fold to a c/r" or they'll check behind here fearing a possible c/r and call our donkbet on the river thinking "i still think my hand is best, but i'm not sure".

hence why we still donkbet the river instead of c/r the turn. i think you run the same risk by check/calling that flop.

[jskills]

How about check raising the flop?

Leading the flop is not the way to go heads up here. You need to make a quick determination on whether he's got a better ace or not. If he 3-bets you back on the flop, it tells you something. If he smooth calls the flop check raise and you lead the turn and he raises, that's also a bad sign.

However, the line you took kind of leaves you guessing. You could just check / call, check / call, bet / fold too.

Without reads this is difficult. Also, this is a small pot and you're OOP, so folding isn't the end of the world.

[shant]

I think betting the flop sucks. I like c/c, c/c, bet.

[inspectorgadget]

You don't have a read on this guy at all if all you have seen is 4 hands. I call down because I think i'm going to win it often enough, plus you get a read out of it too which can be valueable later on.

[waffle]

i'm going to sound like a broken record, but, c/c, c/c, b/f.

no reason to bet the flop as you're almost 100% certain the pfr will bet it if you check, there's almost no chance he will fold to your bet, and you're not looking to bet/3bet.

if you don't feel comfortable folding to a river raise when you bet, ask yourself, do you really see small stakes players raising the river with any hand you beat? in my experience, when you donked the flop and got raised, your opponent can have a wide range. usually is an aggro type who 3bet pf and loves to keep the aggression up. but an unknown's river raise almost always indicates the goods. you could c/c the river but you will lose out a little when he checks through worse hands.