|
|
#151
10-10-2005, 11:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
You are free to trust your own judgment to the extent that your soul is what's at stake. If you think that your unbelief is proof that God doesn't exist, you've made your choice. [/ QUOTE ] That's a misquote. My lack of need to believe is the best possible evidence that you are wrong because you claim to know something different about my mind. Leave god out of it. If there is a god you are wrong about his nature. chez 
|
|
#152
10-10-2005, 11:36 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Because you claim to know god created me such that I need to believe in him, I now have the best possible evidence that you are wrong. So does everyone else who thinks the way I do. [/ QUOTE ] Never thought of that one. Use his own logic against him. A. God made us with the need to believe in him. B. I do not have the need to believe in him. C. Therefore, god does not exist. Thanks Chez. [/ QUOTE ] Thats not quite right. The conclusion is that god did not make us with the need to believe in him. From which it follows that NoTReady's view about god is wrong. chez
|
|
#154
10-10-2005, 11:47 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you claim to know something different about my mind. [/ QUOTE ] That's a misquote. I claim the Bible says something different about your mind. [/ QUOTE ] No, its you claiming to believe its true. I don't doubt the bible says what you claim it says. It's your belief about the nature of god that I have the best possible evidence against. chez
|
|
#155
10-10-2005, 11:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Show me any reasons or arguements for your statements above. [/ QUOTE ] Most of what you quote are arguments. The statement "If God doesn't exist the universe is irrational" is an argument. [/ QUOTE ] Regardless of whether or not you imagine the existence of a god, the universe is irrational. Your argument reduces to "The universe is not rational". I have no problem with that.
|
|
#157
10-10-2005, 01:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There's no rational explanation for anything unless God exists. If He doesn't the universe and everything else is ultimately irrational. I can't prove it isn't, but I like to think the sentences I write have real meaning and aren't just the product of chance. One of my presuppositions is that the universe has meaning. If this is true, God must exist. It's not an absolute proof, but if it isn't true, this dialogue has no meaning so it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong. Actually, in that case there would be no right or wrong. [/ QUOTE ] If your sentences have real meaning I sure can't figure them out. What a bunch of nonsense. There's no rational explanation for anything unless God exists - what a bunch horsesh*t. How do people like you make such ridiculous statements? If that is true for you so be it - but don't assume everyone else feels that way. [/ QUOTE ] Cab, NotReady’s posts are actually very objective. Almost matter of fact when he speaks. This makes him sound subjective. What he says is fairly basic (not to mean his posts are mundane, quite the contrary). What he says in different ways is this (and I have tried to clarify this before, thought we had gotten this straight): There is no absolute meaning without a God. (And he is right.) It is not to say that folk cannot give their own meaning to their own lives. Have all the meaning you want. It is just not an absolute and/or universal meaning of life. RJT
|
|
#158
10-10-2005, 01:23 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Show me any reasons or arguements for your statements above. [/ QUOTE ] Most of what you quote are arguments. The statement "If God doesn't exist the universe is irrational" is an argument. [/ QUOTE ] But this is a diferent argument than you first posed and maybe there lies the confusion. You said "My basic position is that God is necessary if the universe is to have meaning." Say that staement is accepted by atheists. I am an atheist and I happen to agree with your statement. Ie. he universe has no meaning in the sense of no purpose. But ..that does not mean the universe is irrational. In fact all the evidence (scientific investigation) shows the rationality of the universe in that it is susceptible to rational explanation and investigation).( And by this I do _not_ say this shows God doesn't exist, necessarily.) So no meaning implies no God does not imply irrational universe. HOWEVER, a God that can affect things so as to make happen outside natural law, ie, in principle, makes them unpredictable by any rational investiagation. So your premise leads to the conclusion that a God that gives meaning and can affect things at will is the only way, I believe, one can an irrational universe! the opposite of the conclusion I believe you came to! In fact evidence to show the world is irrational maybe the only way tp prove the existance of a God who can direct outcomes that are beyond our ken (reason)?
|
|
#159
10-10-2005, 01:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
There is no absolute meaning without a God. ( And he is right .) [/ QUOTE ] This one has been done to death. And since you are right there is no point arguing. Let's just agree to disagree.
|
|
#160
10-10-2005, 01:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Herr Little Freddie Nietzche
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He even takes this to the extent of claiming everyone else has the same need. [/ QUOTE ] What I claim is that God made us in His image as His creatures, finite and dependent on Him. We are not self-sufficient. I claim this for mankind based on God's word. Not everyone sees that dependency or is willing to admit it. That refusal is called unbelief. [/ QUOTE ] This actually is a subjective statement. It is only an objective statement if he is right about God.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
