This one's been bugging me...

[PokerGoblin]

Live $1/$2 PLO

I am in EP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-J-x [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I open raise the max to $7. I get called by two MP players. I start the hand with about $400 and I have them both covered, their stacks are $250ish each.

Flop comes A-J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet $25, they both call. Pot $100ish.

Turn is an offsuit 9. I bet $80, MP1 pushed all in for his last $120 or so on top. Folds to me.

Getting about 3:1 against a surely made straight and holding one of my FH outs makes it slightly -EV to call, but it was close enough, and it was early enough in the night that I could make a recovery by the end of the night (yes, this is sometimes part of my thought process, stack preservation is a virtue). Furthermore, there is a small possibility that this particular opponent may have a set of 9's and a flush draw, which he would probably play the same way.

----------------------------------------------------------

There's probably a better line to playing this hand from this position. Checking the turn may have been a better play, keeping the pot relatively small and calling, hoping to fill up on the river. If I miss, I can fold.

Thoughts?

PG

[mshalen]

I don't think you played it poorly. With that flop the only hand currently ahead of you is if someone holds both remaining aces - probably not too likely and you just can't give a free card to the non nut flush draw that is probably out there.

I hate a flop where you have a boat possibility but the number of outs is reduced by a card in your hand.

I too would put the opponent on a made straight or a flush draw with a possible set. If I read the post right you only need to call $40 into a pot of about $300. Easy call.

If you had checked the turn and one of the others bet out then what? Would you have folded, called or raised? If you would have called you end up in the same position as betting but without as much information as you have now.

Where in the world do you play live PLO?

[PokerGoblin]

[ QUOTE ]
If I read the post right you only need to call $40 into a pot of about $300. Easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. He pushed $120 on top of my $80 bet.

[ QUOTE ]
If you had checked the turn and one of the others bet out then what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I call, lessening the money I commit when I know I am behind.

[ QUOTE ]
Where in the world do you play live PLO?

[/ QUOTE ]

In my basement every Monday night.

PG

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Where in the world do you play live PLO?

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize lots of casinos actually spread this game. Particularly in the south and midwest. I've played live PLO in 7 casinos in the US. . .

oh yeah, and in pokergoblin's basement. . .

[Acesover8s]

Heh, I'd lost a bet with myself on how long it was going to be before you posted this.

This hand is TEXTBOOK as to why position is SO important, and why the draw has all the advantages in PL play.

Its also compounded by the fact that your opponent in this hand doesn't have as much Omaha experience as some of the other players, and could easily have a hand you're crushing. So with that info, i think you have to call the turn as a small set or top two are entirely possible.

Against most opponents I'm going to lead that turn as well since as far as bad turn cards go, the 9 is relatively innocuous.

The only mistake I think is here:

[ QUOTE ]
Getting about 3:1 against a surely made straight and holding one of my FH outs makes it slightly -EV to call, but it was close enough, and it was early enough in the night that I could make a recovery by the end of the night (yes, this is sometimes part of my thought process, stack preservation is a virtue). Furthermore, there is a small possibility that this particular opponent may have a set of 9's and a flush draw, which he would probably play the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is it, is it a 'surely made straight' or is there a 'small possibility that he has a set of 9s' At that point it comes down to maths.

Furthermore, stack preservation is NOT a virtue in a cash game. You make the correct play and reload as necessary.

[mshalen]

Sorry, I live in New Jersey and they only run a few limit O8 games. Here when I ask about PLO they look at me like I have three heads.

[Acesover8s]

PS, betting smaller on the turn gives you more options, and gets you overcalled by the hand you really want in (assume CN doesn't raise there), the AJ held by the professor.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I live in New Jersey and they only run a few limit O8 games. Here when I ask about PLO they look at me like I have three heads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted. A better question is almost "where in the world do you play live 1-2 PLO" As the game is usually a big gambling game, and the live 5-10 games of old are drying up and being replaced by 10-25 and even 25-50 in some places.

At the WSOP this year the 10-25 game was amazing, with average pots well in the thousand dollar range, and then there was the 5-5 game filled with underbankrolled young nutpeddlers, and the average potsize was perhaps 50-100$

[PokerGoblin]

[ QUOTE ]
Heh, I'd lost a bet with myself on how long it was going to be before you posted this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yaknow, I almost didn't post it at all. When CN pushed I knew I was up against most likely the straight. If he had just the flush draw I think he'd have flat called. I think he'd draw to the non nut flush in that spot (I held the naked A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]).

Even though I was not getting the correct pot odds to chase the FH draw, the small possibility that he was overplaying a smaller set makes it an easy call.

If I check, CN likely bets about $50 into a $100 pot in that spot. The prof may come along, and I can see the river relatively cheaply. Of course, I may wind up paying off a bet on the end anyhow.

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, stack preservation is NOT a virtue in a cash game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea I know that. I put that part in there just for you.

PG