When will I get a ruling?

sandbagger223 · #1 08-29-2005, 10:17 AM

This one's a doozie (sp?)

Playing at the Daytona Kennel Club. They run a $45 buy in, 4 table tournament. 12 players per table. Top 2 from each table go to the "final table". ALL 8 PLAYERS AT THE FINAL TABLE START WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF CHIPS! Is that crazy or have any of you seen this before?

Anyway, to my BS ruling. There are 3 left at my table, (including me). Old Lady (OL) in the 8 seat is short stacked and throws in what appears to be the rest of her chips. It was about 3 BB's. We were playing with black ($100) and pink ($500) chips. She threw in 4 pink and 7 or 8 black chips. Other player folds and I look at A5o in the BB.

I think for about 25 to 30 seconds. I say "alright I call ya, I got an Ace" and flip my cards up. Before they hit the felt OL starts screaming that my hand is dead, AS SHE HOLDS 1 BLACK CHIP IN THE AIR. I did not see it. The dealer did not see it. The other player did not see it. She was hiding it under her arm.

No problem, I say to myself. This is a pretty clear angleshot, I'll just wait for the floor to get here, and we'll continue the hand. Floor comes over, hears what happened, and PUSHED HER THE ENTIRE POT. She didn't even show her hand.

I swear I have never gotten a ruling...

Randy_Refeld · #2 08-29-2005, 10:58 AM

Whenever you are playing some place where the staff is unfamiliar with poker you must take extra steps to protect yourself. Yes this is a bad ruling, but if you protect your hand until they froce you to turn it up you won't have this sort of issue.

MediaPA · #3 08-29-2005, 11:05 AM

Interesting. I don't claim to know the rules to anything really. If someone was left to act in the round, I'd think your hand should be dead. However, heads up in this situation, what difference would it really make? You would be calling w/ 72o on any flop for $100 more.

Rules are usually general and not specific to situations like this. Crappy deal.

SheridanCat · #4 08-29-2005, 11:06 AM

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ALL 8 PLAYERS AT THE FINAL TABLE START WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF CHIPS! Is that crazy or have any of you seen this before?

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It's a shootout style. Usually it's one player from each table going to the finals (where all will have the same number of chips to start) but in this case they decided to make it the final two since there are only 4 tables. It's strange that they would then equalize the chip count; I would have thought the final two would go with whatever chips they had when it got heads up. The way you describe it, a guy who makes the final two at a table with a single $100 chip would go to the final table with a full stack.

That is a little strange, but you knew the structure going in, so it's just a different way of doing it.

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Anyway, to my BS ruling.

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The "ruling" is horrible, of course. A cursory reading of the rules from the Tournament Director's Association would show what the correct ruling is. The old lady shot an angle, and you fell for it.

Of course, if the house rule is that any early exposed hand is dead, then the ruling was correct.

Regards,

T

SheridanCat · #5 08-29-2005, 11:07 AM

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If someone was left to act in the round, I'd think your hand should be dead.

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Even in this situation, your hand would not be dead if using TDA rules.

Regards,

T

sandbagger223 · #6 08-29-2005, 02:13 PM

I've never even heard of the TDA. The floor did explain to me that the "house rule" was anyexposed hand would be dead, but come on!

Can't the floor use a little common sense in this spot? I think I should have at least gotten my call back.

Photoc · #7 08-29-2005, 02:16 PM

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When will I get a ruling?

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You got your ruling already. Unfortunately it's a bad ruling but then again, no one declared that the player was all in. The dealer does not have to voluntarily say "the player is NOT all in". You can ask if a player is all in, which is what I see a lot of players do. If the other player says yes they are, then the ruling would be different.

Randy_Refeld · #8 08-29-2005, 02:30 PM

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no one declared that the player was all in. The dealer does not have to voluntarily say "the player is NOT all in".

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This brings up another minor point; the only time the dealer shoudl comment on a players all in status is if they make an all-in bet/raise that would other wise be illegal. Example A bets $50 B goes all in for $75 deler shoudl anounce "all-in for $75" now A bets $50 B goes all-in for $125 dealer should say "$125 to go." This is a pet peeve of mine becasue often a delaer will say "all-in for $125" and the dealer should not comment that this player has no more chips to bet.