10/20 and Opening Up Preflop from UTG & UTG+1

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]

You know I really don't know why people want to play terrible hands from EP in the 10/20 where 3-betting is common and imo it's unlikely the gap between your postflop skills and that of your oposition is great enough to compensate for being oop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the thing is that people actually tend to give a little credit to early raises, and fold some hands that they would bet 3betting with had your raise come from CO or button. Also, when you get it HU with a blind, he generally wont be defending as aggressively postlop as he would had your raise been a more obvious steal.

[Drontier]

i dont recommend raising QTs or K9s. Id prefer to open raise hands like A8o first. My data isn't huge, but QTs and K9s is suicide here. KTs is barely above even money UTG.

[MAxx]

Heres what I do currently, not that that makes it right.

UTG: A9s+, ATo+, KTs+, KJo+, QTs+, JTs+, 55+...somtimes QJo but never KTo- not that that makes sense

UTG+1: A7s+, A8o+, K9s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo, JTs+, 44+

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
The real reason I feel I need to make a change is that there is just too big of a gap between my UTG+1 winrate and my Cutoff winrate. I just can't be playing enough hands early.

Position - VPIP - bb/100

UTG - 15.67- .07
UTG+1 - 17.95- .07
CO - 23.53- .12
Button - 27.87- .14

There's just no reason, except for not playing enough hands up front, there should be THAT big of a discrepancy in my EP and LP winrate. Agree?

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean BB/hand and not BB/100, right?

Mine are 0.14, 0.10. 0.09, and 0.04. Variance is much worse for seat win rates compared to overall win rates. I truly don't see what the fuss is about. Your numbers look normal and good. Position matters very much and your results are naturally going to reflect that.

Anyway, even if we assume that there is a problem, that has little to do with your starting hands. How is adding 2% worth of very marginal hands to your EP VP$IP supposed to have a significant impact on your results? Even if all of your new hands were worth 0.1 BB/hand (really optimistic assumption) when they came up they would still only add 0.002 BB/hand to your overall results for those seats.

[Surfbullet]

Just thought I'd chime in with the "small sample size" warning. Positional winrates converge soooo slowly you could just be running a bit poor in those seats. I'm with stellar that adding a few super-marginal hands isn't going to make the difference.

Surf

[cartman]

These are from 5/10, so take them for whatever they are worth.
Total hands = 216K.

UTG+1(filtered exactly 2 off the button, not a blind, raised first in)

AKo =+1990 on 228 times
AQo =+1761 on 280
AJo =+1222 on 260
ATo = +298 on 223
A9o = +500 on 194
A8o = +255 on 171

KQo = -93 on 221
KJo =+1007 on 242
KTo = +59 on 171

QJo = +197 on 249
QTo = -412 on 84


AKs = +439 on 77
AQs = +758 on 78
AJs = +429 on 75
ATs = +301 on 70
A9s = +360 on 87
A8s = -19 on 67
A7s = +286 on 77
A6s = +392 on 67
A5s = +661 on 81
A4s = +541 on 59
A3s = +146 on 78
A2s = -206 on 75

KQs = +882 on 73
KJs = -454 on 72
KTs = +200 on 66
K9s = +396 on 70

QJs = +633 on 85
QTs =+1010 on 86
Q9s = +235 on 74

JTs = +113 on 59
J9s = +362 on 43

AA = +2316 on 116
KK = +1709 on 115
QQ = +81 on 110
JJ = +845 on 114
TT = +1453 on 116
99 = +1000 on 134
88 = -130 on 118
77 = +280 on 123
66 = +330 on 125
55 = +130 on 107




UTG(filtered exactly 3 off button, not a blind, raised first in)

AKo = +635 on 142 times
AQo = +708 on 159
AJo = +371 on 165
ATo = -245 on 132
A9o = +49 on 66
A8o = +11 on 47

KQo = +223 on 149
KJo =+652 on 163
KTo = -35 on 93

QJo = -255 on 102
QTo = +188 on 26


AKs = +96 on 59
AQs = -61 on 67
AJs = +154 on 58
ATs = +33 on 55
A9s = +246 on 61
A8s = +290 on 59
A7s = +147 on 69
A6s = +121 on 48
A5s = +276 on 45
A4s = +234 on 56
A3s = +557 on 60
A2s = +341 on 59

KQs = +218 on 66
KJs = +234 on 37
KTs = +794 on 50
K9s = -165 on 34

QJs = +196 on 54
QTs =+85 on 62
Q9s = +118 on 23

JTs = -56 on 22
J9s = +9 on 11

AA = +1519 on 73
KK = +822 on 82
QQ = +613 on 70
JJ = +1498 on 102
TT = +721 on 83
99 = +368 on 97
88 = +593 on 82
77 = +121 on 85
66 = +411 on 74
55 = +620 on 78



Cartman

[wuarhg]

at 10/20 6max I play:

UTG: ATo, A5s, KTs, KJo, QTs, QJo, JTs, 55. Sometimes I go lower and sometimes I go higher, it depends on my image and how i've been running.

UTG+1: A8o, A4s, K9s, KTo, QTo, T9s, 55. Same thing here.

[Trix]

[ QUOTE ]
I think KTo > QJo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I much prefer QJ, actually it´s one of my favorite hands and I´m opening it one spot earlier than KT.

Any flop with one broadway card and you either have a pair or a good bluffing opportunity with QJ. With KT, you are in worse shape on the Q/J xx flops, than QJ is on the K/T xx flops I think.

[Poldi]

From 1/2 to 5/10 KJo always was one of the worst loser of all hands when it came down to BB/Hand. I guess its not a coincidence, I m thinking about removing it from my UTG-raising standards. Stupid?
It just makes so 2nd best hands so often and now at 10/20 you get 3bet a lot more, too. I always thought KTo was very borderline and I didnt add it to my list but now I am seriously thinking about removing KJo although it seems to be pretty standard.

I´m tighter than you are UTG, I´d raise A9s+, ATo+ and I wouldnt even think about raising JTs or QTs UTG for example.