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  #11  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:45 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

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The jury system works well, IMO.

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Yea, OJ is proof that all the undereducated jurors who otherwise would be sitting at home watching soaps, are so very capable of logically judging the facts of any case and rendering a true verdict.

This is in fact just an indictment of the jury system.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:49 PM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

It is odd that you would go against one of the pillars of our free society (being judged by a jury of ones peers) apparently in favor of being judged by opinions offered by unknown internet writers.

When I weigh these two choices, I must say the jury system comes out way on top.
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:54 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

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While in many cases it might be reasonable to forgive a defendant acquitted by a jury of his peers, it is not with al-Arian. Regardless of whether or not the jury believed his actions constituted a specific legal violation by acting “in furtherance of” terrorist attacks, there is no mistaking what is in al-Arian’s heart.

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Our system doesn't allow for juries figuring out what is in someone's heart. They do, I'm sure, but juries are charged with rendering a verdict based on evidence - nothing else. If I'm on a jury and "know in my gut" someone is guilty, but the prosecution did not prove it, beyond a reasonable doubt - I've got no choice but to acquit. Supposedly.

A juror who decides to vote "guilty" because of his "feelings" or "suspicions," is no different than a cop who renders "street justice." Actually, I'd trust the cop's gut before the juror's.

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OK, but there the author isn't talking about the jury convicting or not based on what is in al-Arian's heart--the author is talking about others forgiving al-Arian or not, regardless of the jury's verdict.
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

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The key part of the statute and what is seems the jury didn't find him guilty of, was the "in furtherance of" clause. Although I am sure he argued free speech, his promotion of terrorism is the same as verbally inciting any other crime.

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Well, maybe that's what the DA needs to correct if he re-tries. I'm not a lawyer and have only read and watched a few accounts of Sammi. Based on those, I'd vote guilty. But (here it comes), if they couldn't vote guilty on the "in furtherance clause," the way I understand it, they weren't presented with something they could vote guilty on.

Am I getting you as confused as I am me?

Charges were drawn up. Specifics were set forth. And, again, the way I understand it, that's what the prosecution argues in trial. Point by point. What I'm saying is, the DA didn't spell it out in the best way.

btw, I've never been on a jury. I've always shown up and done the waiting thing (for 30 days once, Federal Grand Jury), but the defense just never seemed to cotton up to me or my answers. Go figure.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:59 PM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

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OK, but there the author isn't talking about the jury convicting or not based on what is in al-Arian's heart--the author is talking about others forgiving al-Arian or not, regardless of the jury's verdic

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It is unlikely that those who prejudged his guilt are likely to forgive him -- regardless of the facts, the juries opinion or any other internet writer offering an opposing opinion.
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  #16  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

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OK, but there the author isn't talking about the jury convicting or not based on what is in al-Arian's heart--the author is talking about others forgiving al-Arian or not, regardless of the jury's verdict.

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Ooooops, did I mis-read or simply not understand? OK, back to the blog (and maybe a remedial reading class on the way?)

Crap, I hate when this happens!

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:00 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

[ QUOTE ]
It is odd that you would go against one of the pillars of our free society (being judged by a jury of ones peers) apparently in favor of being judged by opinions offered by unknown internet writers.

When I weigh these two choices, I must say the jury system comes out way on top.

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Fine, but one main issue under discussion isn't whether or not al-Arian is technically guilty--it is that he has proclaimed his wishes aloud in his own words, and those words show he is a terrorist supporter, with terrorists' goals. Therefore, the legitimate American Muslim community should shun him and condemn his views and words, rather than cheer him.
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:02 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

The point MMMMMM was making, was that these domestic Moslem groups who claim not to support terrorism, are hailing his acquittal despite the amount of evidence. Even if the jury system did work and there wasn't sufficient evidence to convict, they should not be supporting someone who has been proved to support terrorism just by his own words and actions in the evidence presented.
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:08 PM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

If he was a terrorist supporter with terrorists goals he would have been convicted. THe govt has vast resources and a strong political motivation to obtain a conviction.

Perhaps in this case the system worked as intended to control out of control government machinations. A far more plausible scenario, IMO.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Muslim Groups Cheer Aquittal of Cheerleader of Islamic Terrorism

[ QUOTE ]
OK, but there the author isn't talking about the jury convicting or not based on what is in al-Arian's heart--the author is talking about others forgiving al-Arian or not, regardless of the jury's verdict.

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<ul type="square"> What we have here is a failure to communicate.[/list]

The author wrote...


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...there is no mistaking what is in al-Arian’s heart.

[/ QUOTE ]


From that, I took it that his opinion, not the jury's, was that Sami should have been convicted because of what was in his (Sami's) heart. I was saying that I didn't want jurors making decisions based on what they thought was in the accused's heart.

My interpretation of the author's opinion is that he feels the opposite. Since he (author) "knows" what Sami thinks, feels, believes, he (author) doesn't need facts or a properly presented prosecution.
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