Encouraging your table to stall in a tourney (long....as usual)

[Fraubump]

A significant difference between live tourneys and online is that live tourneys have directors to actively enforce the rules. Online, there is rarely any active tourney direction. Ideally, a software solution to the stalling problem will be found--something fair that gives players time to think when needed, but generally keeps play moving. Hand-for-hand works ok, but slows things down a lot itself. Most sites don't implement it soon enough anyway--waiting until 1 off the money is too late and still encourages stalling.

[MicroBob]

I really was pretty sure the guy showed AA after claiming that he had it.
But I admit I got kind of confused when the rep said that he didn't have it.
I mean...I wouldn't have mentioned the AA thing otherwise.

I thought he had showed it. But maybe I saw AA on one of the other tables I was playing or something weird like that.


No, I didn't mark down hand numbers.

Yes, stalling is common in bubble situations (especially when it doesn not go to hand-for-hand as it should) but I don't think a player should be allowed to try to get the whole table on the 'same page' as to what they want to do.


IMO, the AA hand wasn't the worst part.
I thought the worst part was when the guy told the table that they had 7 players left while my table had 6....so they can easily win just by stalling.
And then reporting that "He'll be in the BB in 2 hands...so everybody don't play and we'll all make it."


I agree that if it was just a matter of "Golly...everybody stalled and it cost me a seat" there would be no cause to complain.
I also agree that I was pretty short-stacked and in trouble already and might not have made it regardless.


Party has gotten back to me to say that they have forwarded my info and are going to look into it further.

In the very least, I'm satisfied that they are taking the situation seriously...instead of just giving me semi-generic responses about how hand-for-hand works.



Finally - I feel no guilt about asking for clarity as to why I am not entitled to a seat...or why someone who was clearly guilty of colluding is still allowed to keep his seat.

I don't think it's asking too much to be specifically told what their thinking is behind their decision and I don't think it's that big a deal in the sense that I'm taking their precious time away from 'real problems'.

They are a multi-billion dollar organization...and if they don't have enough support to handle the customer complaints and questions then they should hire more.


It is my opinion that if this had happened on Stars there at least wouldn't be any problem getting clarification regarding their decision.

I don't think I'm over-reacting.
I'm not saying "give me the seat or else I'll never play there again."
I'm just saying "I think other players in this tournament are guilty of collusion. If you don't think I am entitled to some compensation then please tell me why."


Finally - I fully agree with whichever poster brought up the idea of "what if this had happened in a live tourney?"
that idea had occured to me too.

If some player in a live tourney started telling other players right there at the table to stall there is almost no doubt that a tourney-director would have taken action.
I suspect that some TD's might have said, "You can't talk about that because that's collusion. If you continue to talk openly at the table about 'teaming-up' strategies then you will be disqualified from the tourney."

Something like that anyway.


I'm not demanding a seat even though I think it would appropriate in this situation.
But I definitely think I'm entitled to a little bit fuller explanation.

Fair enough.

It definitely wasn't an example of stellar customer service, especially their second and third replies. From the outset they should have addressed each of your grievances individually and explained their policy, what actions they are taking and why. Would have saved themselves and you a lot of hassle.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the worst part was when the guy told the table that they had 7 players left while my table had 6....so they can easily win just by stalling.
And then reporting that "He'll be in the BB in 2 hands...so everybody don't play and we'll all make it."

[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly this is unacceptable, but disqualification is fairly extreme for a first offence. In most casinos the player would get off with just a stern warning, as you said.

I don't think you deserve compensation here. When you gamble online you inherently accept some of the risk of collusion. The poker sites can't be 100% responsible for this, provided they actively monitor and discourage it. In this particular case, you weren't directly a victim of collusion, as in two players sitting on either side and raising you off hands for example or telling each other what they had. You were the victim of a legal strategy of slowplaying which someone chose to share with the table. They weren't even at your table. Had your own table got together and said "let's wait out the short stack, everyone fold to the blinds", you'd have a case, because those hands would be played against you directly.

Good luck though, I hope you get some sort of compensation. I'd write and demand it for their bad customer support and lost hours. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

What was especially weird about this tourney was that we had hand-for-hand with 30 players left.
Then we went back to 'normal' with 20 players left.
And then back to hand-for-hand with 12 players left.

(top 11 won the $850 seat...12-14 also got small left-over money prizes...I won $50 for 12th place)

keep posting the emails!

[FlFishOn]

The more I read the worse it sounds. Have you no sense of personal responsibility? Are you a perpetual victim?

You've played these tourneys before, complained before, got squat from Party before and yet you continue to play there AND piss and moan about how this time it's the same as last time only it cost you money. What a load of BS>

My biggest fear is that there exists an entire generation of victims just like you. We are surely doomed if that's true.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
The more I read the worse it sounds. Have you no sense of personal responsibility? Are you a perpetual victim?

You've played these tourneys before, complained before, got squat from Party before and yet you continue to play there AND piss and moan about how this time it's the same as last time only it cost you money. What a load of BS>

My biggest fear is that there exists an entire generation of victims just like you. We are surely doomed if that's true.

[/ QUOTE ]

95 percent of people are sheep. They just accept what is given to them, never complain because they figure it won't do any good. Microbob complains and raises a stink when bad things happen that shouldn't. Good for him. My biggest fear is that there exists a generation of just sheep, who blindly do what they are told, and never bother to complain because "nothing will change anyway."

[FlFishOn]

"Microbob complains and raises a stink when bad things happen that shouldn't."

Microbob knew the dangers involved in the format yet he decided to play. That is assumption of risk. Now he whines and looks to Party to make him whole.

Bad things happen to people all the time. Bad thing happen to responsible people a lot less often. Take responsibility for your own actions.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
"Microbob complains and raises a stink when bad things happen that shouldn't."

Microbob knew the dangers involved in the format yet he decided to play. That is assumption of risk. Now he whines and looks to Party to make him whole.

Bad things happen to people all the time. Bad thing happen to responsible people a lot less often. Take responsibility for your own actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to speak for Bob, but I would guess that he knows that the value of playing at Party to him exceeds the problems that Party has. That doesn't mean he should just sit back and take it when party farks him over. "Whining" as you call it, complaining, does help if enough people complain and eventually Party gets it through its thick heads that maybe some things need to change. As far as Bob "whining" on this forum, I find this thread interesting, and I personally would like to see how it all works out, so Microbob, please keep posting the emails and don't give up.

[MicroBob]

Hi jman - thanks for the support.
We have a happy ending afterall.

ffishon - I don't specifically 'blame' party or think I am a victim here. I think there were some players acting inappropriately and I think party's customer-support was a little confused trying to handle this and I wanted them to understand the position more clearly.

Yes, I believe some compensation to me was due in this matter.

but I have reported such situations before where it didn't effect me because I think it is inappropriate for players to 'team-up' and discuss stalling at the tables.

Yes, I know there are risks to playing online-poker.
Players can collude against me, I might get disconnected, the site can decide to close-up shop and take all my money, cust-service might not understand some complaint I have, etc etc etc.

I don't think that reporting this kind of situation is 'whining'. I think it SHOULD hopefully be helpful to party on a very real issue that they should be addressing.

However, those who think this issue is completely trivial I can see how they would construe it as whining.