Anyone go for the C/R when you're the PFR?

[SteveGriff]

Quick simple question.

On the flop, when I'm the PFR, I usually just go ahead and bet, when I hit the flop.

I don't try to be tricky and look to see who's in the pot and whether I can get him to bet so I can C/R

Common example. I'm UTG with AK. I raise it up. MP, Button and SB calls. Flop K J 2. Instead of betting here, could I go for the C/R if I'm confident that it checked to the button would bet. Or is it 99.99% correct just to bet.

Like I said, I usually just bet, but I wonder if I'm missing something from not going for more C/R once in a while.

Comments?

Steve Griff

[POKhER]

If you think giving a free card won't change much(I.e. no flush/Straight draws and your pair is high so A/K).

Also, If it traps the field for a few bets and your 90% sure he'll bet then yeah a check-raise is good.

On the other hand, It can often freeze out opponents so if you think it will go heads up its probably best to bet it and get maximum from opponent(C/R is scary and they may fold, where as a bet they may of called).

Look forward to other responses.

[Wynton]

I believe this almost always is a bad play. If villain is capable of betting when you check, he's also probably going to call when you bet the flop and turn. Just stick to the basics.

[jrz1972]

Going for a check-raise after you PFR is on page 2 of the Donk Playbook (page 1 is The Trifecta). Advantages of the try-for-the-check-raise line include giving free cards that beat you and making it easy for your opponents to dump their hands on the turn after your oh-so-tricky check-raise.

Seriously, when you raise preflop, you'll often be making continuation bets on the flop when you whiff. Your opponents know that, so your flop bet doesn't look scary; they expect you to bet the flop no matter what. A check-raise, on the other hand, is much scarrier and less deceptive than a straightforward bet.

[bank]

If the Vilian is extremely LAG and has a high flop aggression I might go for the flop C/R (this is rare)....it also depends on the board and his WTSD (higher the better). If not, betting is far superior to c/r'ing because of the bets you lose when checked through and the unpredictability of betting every time after you raise preflop.

[tallstack]

The check-raise is FPS where it doesn't normally need to be applied. As others have said, you should get action here anyways. However, I think the check-raise isn't too bad in this specific situation. I would use this occasionally if I had been battling either the CO or button alot recently, especially if we had been betting/raising light. Mostly, I would be looking to have my raise treated as pure crap to generate some big action. Otherwise, I think that betting out is better for the reasons that others have stated.

Dave

[Redd]

I think that this concept becomes more important with increasing limits for metagame purposes. I don't play those limits, however, so I invite everyone to correct me if I'm mistaken.

[tinhat]

I rarely see a need to c-r flop ($1/2); and fearing everyone would check thru anyway, I don't. And pfr checking flop (IMO) says more about your hand than if you hadn't (super big or super weak).

There was also some heavy hitter posting not too long ago about farting around in $1/2 6m and he said (paraphrasing) "those limits are about relenentless value betting and nothing else".

Mike

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
they expect you to bet the flop no matter what. A check-raise, on the other hand, is much scarrier and less deceptive than a straightforward bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep

[AASooted]

I won't go for a check-raise on the flop, but I've been playing around a little with check-raising the turn.

I'm still learning, so I don't know if this is fancy play syndrome or not. If I'm the PFR with unimproved overs, I'll often bet the flop. If I get callers and don't improve on the turn, I'll usually end up check/folding against a decent player who invariably senses weakness and bets the turn. To mix that up a little, I've been experimenting with check-raising the turn with made hands against players I think will take a shot at the pot. Is this a bad idea?