AJ...too aggressive with top pair?

[DZgroundhog]

2/4 B&M game over the weekend...

Reads: Loose-passive table in general; I had been there for about three hours so I felt I had most of the players pegged pretty well...UTG+1 has been a huge donator by calling to the river with pretty much any pair and consistently showing down second-best hands; he's also done some strange things like slow-playing top pair against a big field on the flop and turn and then raising on the river...MP2 seems to play fairly well preflop but is a bit of a calling station postflop and has trouble getting away from any sort of hand; he constantly shows aggression postflop by betting into preflop raisers and then gets annoyed when they raise him; and he's a table coach.

Hero is dealt AsJs in SB.

Preflop -- UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Yep, that's about the norm for this table; a bunch of limpers get caught for two bets by a late raise.

Flop (13 SB) -- Ad Qh 6d (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

I think this 3-bet is pretty standard (correct?) since the only hands I should have to worry about from MP2 would be A6, 66, or Qxd and I think 66 can be eliminated since it wasn't capped. And even though MP2 was usually a calling station, I had heard him brag about an earlier raise with a flush draw that bought him a free card; so there was definitely the chance that he was just raising with small diamonds.

Turn (11.5 BB) -- 7s (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

At this point I figured they both either had diamonds or Ax (or maybe even Qx) and were trying to pair their kicker.

River (14.5 BB) -- 3c (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Okay, I know that looks like a bad overcall (and it probably was), but I had seen some goofy holdings at the end of hands like this (like no pair from either player) so I talked myself into it.

Other than the overcall, I think it's pretty standard but MP2 and the dealer were very surprised that I didn't roll over something stronger. They both said they were almost positive that I had a set of aces or queens. Was my flop 3-bet a bit much, or are these guys just too passive?


DZ

[siccjay]

Well played. If you didn't win then why did you turn your hand over?

Most dealers suck at poker too.

[KaiShin]

I don't see a problem here. Not even with the river call, against the type of players you describe. MP2 likely has us beat, but at 18.5:1 its an easy call with top pair.

[DZgroundhog]

[ QUOTE ]
Well played. If you didn't win then why did you turn your hand over?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there had been a lot of "What do you have? One of my cards is a king, can you beat that?" and other time-wasting nonsense like that during showdowns. I almost always end up showing my hand first just to encourage everybody else to show their hands instead of wasting time. And it's not like anybody is really paying attention to get a read on me at 2/4 or 3/6.


DZ

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well played. If you didn't win then why did you turn your hand over?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there had been a lot of "What do you have? One of my cards is a king, can you beat that?" and other time-wasting nonsense like that during showdowns. I almost always end up showing my hand first just to encourage everybody else to show their hands instead of wasting time. And it's not like anybody is really paying attention to get a read on me at 2/4 or 3/6.


DZ

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, so much time is wasted, because ppl don't want to show the loser

[KaiShin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well played. If you didn't win then why did you turn your hand over?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there had been a lot of "What do you have? One of my cards is a king, can you beat that?" and other time-wasting nonsense like that during showdowns. I almost always end up showing my hand first just to encourage everybody else to show their hands instead of wasting time. And it's not like anybody is really paying attention to get a read on me at 2/4 or 3/6.


DZ

[/ QUOTE ]
That's ridiculous. I'd complain loudly to the floor if crap like that continued to happen at my table. Its the dealer's responsibility to get whomever was called to showdown first, then the other players have the option of mucking.

Live poker is so stupid, sometimes.

You played this fine: top pair high kicker vs. preflop passivity and (by the river) a totally disconnected board. I might (underscore MIGHT) have bailed on a turn raise, but there wasn't one.

The dealer and MP2 are idiots who apparently "know" that a raise means they caught two pair with their paint/rag (if MP2 "put you on" a high set, he looks pretty stupid for not folding), and you should be able to win lots of money by playing aggressively at that table. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And if people are going to sit and jockey at showdown, I'd start demanding to see their hands every time until they stop.