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  #21  
Old 08-08-2005, 06:23 PM
VanVeen VanVeen is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

Depending on his perception of Hero, probably all of the stronger hands in his range and a significant % (but probably too low to make this a call) of his no pair hands, although I think villain will tend to make a cheaper bluff w/those rather than attempt a suspicious looking check-raise.

Villain assigns a relatively high % of flush and straight draws to Hero's hand range, all of which cannot call a pot-sized bet but will fire after two streets of checking. He may also (as bruiser said) get a thin call out of Hero those times Hero assigns him a bluff frequency that is high enough to muster a call w/weaker made hands.

Given the information provided, I fold this hand. Well played all around.
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  #22  
Old 08-08-2005, 07:03 PM
kagame kagame is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

remember the UB bet pot button?
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  #23  
Old 08-08-2005, 08:36 PM
fimbulwinter fimbulwinter is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

[ QUOTE ]
ive had a few recent hands where i was checkraised on the river that i thought were a little interesting. here is the first one. my opponent in this one is Thuritz who is newish, as far as im aware, to these games. this would often make me think he might be a bit goofy/bad but i have seen him playing some 50-100 recently in games that didnt appear to be filling up. in the few hands i have played against him he seems tightish so my working assumption is that he is a fairly tight, pretty solid player, but i dont really know. stack sizes are both around 10k.

i get dealth K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in mp. a couple folds to villian who calls, i call, sb calls, bb checks. the flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. the blinds check, villian bets 400, i call and the blinds fold. turn is
K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and it goes check/check. river is the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], villian checks, i bet the pot (1200) and he raises to 4800.

[/ QUOTE ]

the more i look at the turn check, the more impressed i am. i would very likely bet here and it's obviously not the right play.

as for the river, this really looks like a whiffed turn c/r of a semibluff where he hopes you interpret two streets of checking as a meal ticket with a turned K to his set. i don't see myself calling here.

fim
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  #24  
Old 08-08-2005, 08:47 PM
BobboFitos BobboFitos is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

hey cwl, i was hoping someone would address this -

turn check is great. I really like the play of your hand up to the river. but there i'm kinda stuck. what do you put him on the river to check/call? if he himself has a missed draw (diamonds, JT, i dont know what his open limp hand range is...) he wont pay off pot. so that means you're pegging him for like a A9 or T9 to make a heroic call? he doesn't have a king, and if he had a stronger hand like 89, 33, etc. (which is possible) you lose when he check/calls.. (or... if he c/r and you call)

maybe this is a leak but on this board i often barring lack of improvement + bluff inducement just check behind on the riv.

btw, if he's limping weak, any thoughts to popping it up pf...?
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  #25  
Old 08-08-2005, 10:43 PM
cwl cwl is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

on the river i think there is a decent chance he has some kind of marginal one pair hand. if he has something like T9 i expect he will call a good % of the time because my hand should like a lot like a missed draw. part of my motivation in checking the turn was to setup a river situation like this where i think i can get called by some pretty marginal hands.

i think raising pre-flop would have been fine as well and i often would in a spot like this, i just didnt this time. i dont think one option is significantly better than the other. the minor factors that pushed this a bit toward a call are that the limper seemed tight and reasonable and that the BB was someone who was aware that a lot of my pre-flop raises are weak and was more willing than most to re-raise me. i may also have been reading a thread on 2+2 or something and just felt like playing a low key hand.
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  #26  
Old 08-08-2005, 10:58 PM
kenberman kenberman is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if it's Michael Thuritz, he's far from newish/bad

[/ QUOTE ]

When do these Swedes start playing high-stakes poker? 12?

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

by 12 most of them are burnt out
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  #27  
Old 08-09-2005, 01:26 PM
cwl cwl is offline
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Default Results

i called and he had JsTs so i win.

a couple of the factors i was thinking about are:
- with a hand strong enough to cr the river he will bet the turn a decent amount of the time. this is far from conclusive because its certainly possible he just missed a turn cr but it makes a bluff a bit more likely.
- many players dont checkraise as much as they should after having missed a turn checkraise. if he has a hand like a set i think its a reasonable play for him to cr the river here but often players will be so concerned about 2 streets getting checked through with their monster hand that they will bet, whether they should or not.
- i would guess i have pretty successfully made my hand look like a missed draw. its also reasonable for him to have a hand with no showdown value here which makes a bluff on his part somewhat more likely.
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  #28  
Old 08-09-2005, 02:41 PM
pofi pofi is offline
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Default Re: Results

[ QUOTE ]
i called and he had JsTs so i win.

a couple of the factors i was thinking about are:
- with a hand strong enough to cr the river he will bet the turn a decent amount of the time. this is far from conclusive because its certainly possible he just missed a turn cr but it makes a bluff a bit more likely.
- many players dont checkraise as much as they should after having missed a turn checkraise. if he has a hand like a set i think its a reasonable play for him to cr the river here but often players will be so concerned about 2 streets getting checked through with their monster hand that they will bet, whether they should or not.
- i would guess i have pretty successfully made my hand look like a missed draw. its also reasonable for him to have a hand with no showdown value here which makes a bluff on his part somewhat more likely.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice read, nice play.
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  #29  
Old 08-09-2005, 03:05 PM
Sadat X Sadat X is offline
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Default Re: ub 50-100 river checkraise #1

[ QUOTE ]
The reasoning behind his river check raise is pretty straight forward: He knows the 2 didn't help you. And any hand that would be worth value betting on the river would almost certainly have bet the turn against a very draw heavy board. You haven't shown any real stength and his bet looks like he wants a fold. I would be inclined to call this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on, I would call.
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