I check behind an overpair

[damaniac]

Windsor 5/10

Game is currently playing loose and aggressive, as far as I know none of the aggressors here are crazy aggressive but certainly appear prone to raising on the light side (as well as calling with anything).

Loose passive UTG limps, somewhat loose aggressive UTG+1 raises, another somewhat loose aggressive player 3-bets, UTG+1, who is very loose and over-aggressive, cold-calls, as does MP1, a loose passive. Folded to me on the button with JJ (suits unimportant) and I cap. SB, who has called every bet ever made and not won a single hand, semi-cold calls all-in for 3, BB, a TAG 2+2er, folds, as does the first limper. Everyone else calls.

5 players + 1 all-in for 25 small bets.

Flop is (don't remember exactly, this is close though) T75, I think two spades. All check to me and I...check, intending to raise (and often reraise) any blank turn card, where the blankness of the card depends somewhat on the action (ie, with say a Jack).

Strong likelihood that I get bet into by someone on this turn, hand or no, and I can really cut down on the effective odds of people in the hand, while no one should be folding even a backdoor draw for 1 bet in this pot (and they are almost certainly not going to either).

Any good?

[brettbrettr]

I don't like it. In a pot this big everything you do with this hand is for value since no one is folding.

[jason_t]

Straight out of Poker Essays.

[mr pink]

i dunno man, there are a lot of turn cards that you're not gonna want to raise. a bet could fold out some hands that are drawing live against you - single overcards, weak aces, lone spades etc... that are just waiting to fold. getting anyone out of this pot would be a big plus imo.

[ecooke]

Once checked to on the flop, I think you have to value bet.

Couple of points of interest -
If you cold call all 3 PF how does your plan change on Flop?
Given the Flop check, what's the game plan when any spade, A, K, Q, T, 7, or 5 falls on the Turn?

[damaniac]

If one of the two PFR's bet an A or K (and probably a Q) I am gone, though I probably call down a Q if everyone else folds, which won't happen. If the LAG (first triple cold-caller, henceforth referred to as Syracuse because of his hat) bets, I probably raise and check behind on the river, as the pot is giving me a decent overlay that I don't have to be good all that often, especially if I can fold out other live overcards by raising.

I'm raising any time the board pairs (no reason to fear trips), and if one of the PFR's bet and Syracuse raises, I'm 3-betting.

Also raising a spade, folding if it goes bet/raise in front of me most likely. Again, no reason to put someone on a flush after checking the flop.

[DMBFan23]

this is in HPFAP as well, although they advocate it with AA where not as many free cards will hurt you.

[damaniac]

I was curious about that. On the one hand, fewer OC's hurt me. On the other my equity is a lot lower (see Ed Miller's TT hand, although that was just calling instead of checking) with JJ than AA. So...hmmm?

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
I was curious about that. On the one hand, fewer OC's hurt me. On the other my equity is a lot lower (see Ed Miller's TT hand, although that was just calling instead of checking) with JJ than AA. So...hmmm?

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I see it, if the flop has 2 to a flush we really should bet. The whole thing about giving infinite odds to a flush draw (and in this case (2) overcards).

Yes they are not going to fold, but I think giving them a free card is worse than betting.