How does Kill affect strategy?

[Xhad]

Assuming everyone plays exacly the same way when there is a kill, the formula for a big bet would be: (non-kill pots)/(total pots)*(normal big bet) + (kill pots)/(total pots)*(kill big bet)

The easy way to prove this is to assume that you're playing at two tables, one of which is a 3/6 game, and one of which is a 6/12 game, and you can only play one at a time. Clearly if the players are exactly the same, you should have the same BB/100 rate at one game as you do at the other, meaning your winrate at the big table is exactly twice your hourly rate at the little table. Then it's just a matter of how many hands you spend at each table vs. total hands played to determine what your winrate is.

For example, in a 3/6 full kill game where it averages one kill every 10 hands (I'm just pulling this number out of my arse), it would be (9/10)*$6 + (1/10)*$12, or $8.1

If the people play fishier when there is a kill, how much that adds to your EV is kind of an intangible so I don't know that any numbers would help. Also the issue that the kill gets his own big blind can also change things, however since you won't be playing as loosely as the rest of the table will in a kill game you're less likely to post a kill, meaning that factor doesn't hurt you either. It seems the real question here is how often do pots get killed? That's the important unknown, and in fact it likely varies from game to game (depending on how badly the people in question want to "defend their kill button")

[guidoguru]

thanks xhad, that was very well thought out. this would be the ideal way to calculate your bb/100 in that game, but if you're playin B&M and not online, it would be rather difficult since i typically do not keep a running tally of the # of hands played. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] i use a spreadsheet that i made where i plug in the amount of hours played, the limits, and what my buyins/cashouts were. i realize that this is not nearly as good an estimate as a bb/100 calculation that can be done using hand histories, but it suits my needs. for now, i think i will just stick to my spreadsheet and call it 3/6 limit, but make a note in the game description that it was a kill game. any suggestions on a better way for me to calculate my hourly rate?

BTW - your comments about the "intangibles" of kill games were very true. in my regular game the pots are killed VERY often, and the killer almost always tries to defend his kill. talk about "playing the rush." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[NotMitch]

I'll be at Morongo all weekend so this thread is very timely. So for a full kill game what do you generally buy in for? I'm thinkink 20 BB of the killed limits.

[guidoguru]

for 3/6 full kill i always buyin for $200, and have at least another $100 in my pocket. that's a little over 16 BBs at the killed limit. if you dont feel comfortable with only 16 bets, buy $250. some people give weird looks when i buy in for 2 racks at 3/6, but those are the same people that play weak/tight in the kill pots. BTW, i normally buyin for $200 at 3/6 w/o a kill, just cuz i like to LAG it up sometimes. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PokerDork]

Perhaps the most important adjustment, is getting ready to here the words "I did (insert incorrect play) because it was a kill" also "I had to protect the leg-up." For the solid player the most difficult adjustment at a table with a kill is to keep the laughter to yourself.
Seriously, pick on those who play weak-tight, forget about stealing even more than normal (probably a non-issue at 3/6) because the kill blind will typically defend no matter what. Also, value bet the "because it was a kill"ers a lot.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing you have to remember is that if you're going to have to post a kill if you win a pot then the pot is essentially smaller by that ammount. So if you're on the end and with the nuts and someone bets into you, it isn't worth raising if that would cause it to be a kill.

Ok, that isn't going to happen very often. But you get the idea :0)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't the kill live? If so, it's got some equity and shouldn't be written off as "lost".

[mosch]

kills are live. Considering it lost is overcompensation. It's basically just a blind, but one in (usually) a less shitty position.

If you get the kill on your blind, you only have to post the kill.

Personally, I like the east coast kill better (pot size). The Foxwoods 5/10 games I've played in were often 10/20 games where I didn't have to pay the big blind my fair share of the time. West coast kill (2 in a row) is just a random trip to another limit... though it's a lot of fun to rake a 20bb pot from an 8/16 kill game that plays with $2 chips. (a little over a rack and a half of chips, from one pot)

[JihadOnTheRiver]

You, sir, have the greatest avatar that ever existed on this fine planet. nh

[jpumass11]

[ QUOTE ]
The Foxwoods 5/10 games I've played in were often 10/20 games where I didn't have to pay the big blind my fair share of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

So at foxwoods the blinds dont post on a killed pot? What are the blinds at 5/10 anyways? Thanks.

[midas]

Mosch -

When you say you didn't often have to pay the big blind - was that because you won most of your $100+ of pots UTG?

Also, I've played the FW 5-10 quite often and tracked the number of kill hands. The only time it ever gets over 50% is on weekend nights when the table is full of loose aggressive types. I sat down this week at a 5-10 table that was lucky to see 5% of the pots killed over 2 hours.