2/4 Party BBJ - weak flush play - Page 2

eleventy · #11 06-09-2005, 04:36 PM

If AA had A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you might have been able to cap the Turn and J4o woulda been along for the ride. As you played you got the same bets in as if you raised the turn and they called you down. If you bet you probably get more. And raise the flop.

Munga30 · #12 06-09-2005, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Question for the repliers. If you know that raising the flop will make everyone check/call (or fold) down the rest of the way do you smooth play the flop and raise the turn, or still raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

After all those flop calls, still raise. The volume (edge x players) is too big to pass up for the uncertainty of whether you'll be bet into when the flush card comes on the turn. If it were a bet and single call to you on the flop, calling becomes a better option because you're not passing on nearly as much value.

poker-penguin · #13 06-09-2005, 06:02 PM

How about this hand?

Have I learned my lesson yet? Or am I erring in the other direction now?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

brettbrettr · #14 06-09-2005, 06:15 PM

Yuckarooni. Raise flop, turn and river.

brettbrettr · #15 06-09-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Question for the repliers. If you know that raising the flop will make everyone check/call (or fold) down the rest of the way do you smooth play the flop and raise the turn, or still raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I knew I'd hit my flush I'd call and raise the turn. Since I don't know I'm taking the free card.

brettbrettr · #16 06-09-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about this hand?

Have I learned my lesson yet? Or am I erring in the other direction now?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this might qualify as other direction, although you might be buying yourself some ace outs if weak ones fold. I'd call the flop raise though, build the pot. Then spike a heart at some point.

Chuckles1248 · #17 06-09-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How about this hand?

Have I learned my lesson yet? Or am I erring in the other direction now?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this might qualify as other direction, although you might be buying yourself some ace outs if weak ones fold. I'd call the flop raise though, build the pot. Then spike a heart at some point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his line here is fine, he's possibly cleaning up his ace outs, and he's got 12 outs to the nut straight/flush. OOP, however, I'd be more inclined to bet the turn after 3-betting the flop, because you're very unlikely to get a free card, and with three people in you still have a pretty huge equity edge. I could be a bit LAGgy, however, I dunno.

poker-penguin · #18 06-09-2005, 06:30 PM

Obviously, spiking a heart on the river was part of my master plan. My pattern mapper said there was a 50.4% chance of one coming but I wanted to disguise my knowledge. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I thought raising the flop was going to build more of a pot than calling (I was expecting more calls from the guys in the middle).

cjhellm · #19 06-09-2005, 06:45 PM

I think that unless you know those guys caught in the middle are coming along, the best line is just to call instead of 3-bet on that flop.

nfscreech · #20 06-09-2005, 09:04 PM

You have about 10 outs with the flush and backdoor straight draw. this comes in around 36% of the time. You have four opponents commited on the flop. Your pot equity is huge. Raise.
Given that you didn't raise the flop, you should raise the turn.
River is fine.