20/40, hands like this are killing me - Q6s blind war

[joseki]

Take the free card? Not many other options available, eh?

[Grisgra]

I feel your pain. I've played it the same way countless times, and gotten burned countless times. And it seems the few times I've 3-bet the turn in a tilty LAG fit I've almost always gotten burned and the guy calls me down with his weak king or his JT or even his ace or god knows what. But a 3-bet on the turn or a river raise when the ace hits only has to work 20% of the time or so to be worth the extra investment . . .

Ugh. It seems that whether or not I have position in these blind wars, I end up playing fit-or-fold or spewing countless chips. Doesn't happen at 10/20. Happens all the time at 20/40. They can't hit EVERY hand, can they?

Good post since this situation comes up so often.

First, you didn't "give away the initiative," it was taken from you. There's a big difference, since the latter much more often means that he's got something.

Second, and this goes with the first, since he's got something and you've got Q high, you lose. Good players minimize the amount they lose in these situations. Folding isn't a sin, it just starts to drive you nuts when it seems like you're constantly whiffing and having to fold and get paranoid and think that everyone has just pegged you as weak tight and is running over you with nothing.

Third, sometimes donking the flop isn't such a bad line, since it often folds Ax or whatever, whereas those hands seem to think that it's necessary to call if c/red (and they are getting better odds on their call, so it's not entirely crazy). Also, it saves you one SB when you get raised on the turn.

Finally, and I'm pretty sure you do this anyway, but if you're going to c/r flops in these situations you have to do it with big hands sometimes as well.

[Lmn55d]

my boy had position!

Technicalities.

Im not calling Q6s preflop personally, but if your that good, have fun with it...

I mean I realize its the blinds, but I love waitiing for an AQs type hand, just overcalling his SB raise, then railing 3bet to his turn CR...
Blind defense can be costly, are you leaking a [censored] ton of money through your blinds? Check Pt, I was...

Turn im taking the free card, who knows what this guys range is, and his aggression screams scheck raise which you cant risk..
river obvious fold
keep in mind that your drawing heads up, and even paying double bets for it. this is just bad business, the implied odds suck too
cdl

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not calling Q6s preflop personally, but if your that good, have fun with it...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not like he's facing a raise from UTG. This is an SB or, his range for raising there is immense.

[sy_or_bust]

If you fold preflop, you're getting run over.

[Victor]

q6s is a monster hand here.

[Surfbullet]

Thanks for the input guys.

In retrospect, I think a turn check was in order on *this* turn. The T makes so many hands that would have folded a blank turn into calling hands w/ gutshots, oesd, pairs, etc, that I think I can check it behind and reevaluate on the river. Gaming_mouse's calculations were good and I'll keep that in mind in the future. A J would also be a bad turn card to bet, though I'd probably bet any non-J or T b/c i retain most of the folding equity my flop raise generated.

as Hock_ and Grisgra alluded to, it can be stymieing to have to keep folding UI(though correct-i've spewed here with a turn 3bet or river raise just like gris), especially when it feels like I never hit the draw...they can't have it every time, right? Somitems he'll have c/r'd me on the turn with an OESD...because there's no way they always have a good pair w/ the amount these guys give action.

My biggest worry at the 20 game is that i'm getting run over... from an objective standpoint I know I read hands well enough to take bottom pair to showdown when i think it's +EV, so it's not like i'm sitting around waiting for TPTK, but it can be tough when you are blanking alot of hands to remember that.

Surf