"arizona style" NL

DesertCat · #1 01-02-2005, 09:11 PM

Anyone played the "Arizona Style" NL at Casino Arizona? I've been playing alot of NL (ring and tournaments online) lately and I'm wondering how juicy the ring NL game is there?

Shillx · #2 01-02-2005, 09:39 PM

Casino Arizona is great. At least the 3/6 games used to be when we drove up from Tucson every weekeend.

DesertCat · #3 01-02-2005, 10:26 PM

It is great, I play there alot. But I've never played their version of NL (raises/bets capped at $150 due to tribes restrictions with state). I'm wondering if the play is loose or tight, aggressive or passive.

OrangeCat · #4 01-03-2005, 03:14 AM

Is poker in AZ only at the Indian reservations or is it legal like in CA?

sicvic · #5 01-03-2005, 04:15 AM

Only in the Indian casinos...there aren't any card rooms like commerce, bike, etc. in AZ

FeliciaLee · #6 01-03-2005, 03:41 PM

It's "okay," definitely not great. The max buy-in is too small for the blinds. Most players are pretty tight, at least, the night I played. The game goes too slowly due to constant arguing and abuse of the IWTSTH rule. If they upped the buy-in or lowered the blinds, and tightened up their rules a bit, it might be a better game, but we probably only saw 20-30 hands per hour, max.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

DesertCat · #7 01-03-2005, 06:19 PM

Felicia, thanks for sharing your observations. At the cost of (again) appearing ignorant, may I ask what the IWTSTH rule is?

FeliciaLee · #8 01-03-2005, 06:52 PM

An old poker rule, supposedly meant to protect players from cheats, is called IWTSTH or "I want to see that hand."

According to this rule, if a hand goes to showdown, and it is multi-way, anyone can ask to see a mucked hand.

So say you and I are contesting a pot. Let's say I am in the BB and have something like A8. You are behind me and I suspect you have a better ace when you bet out on the flop, turn and river. Suspecting you have me outkicked, but not knowing for sure, say I decide to call your river bet.

Now, according to the real spirit of the rule, if I call you, you turn up the winning hand, I muck, that is that. No one could possibly suspect anyone of collusion in that hand. We were head's up, so who would we be colluding?

According to Casino Arizona, however, if I muck my hand, you are allowed to have the dealer reach out and stop my muck, or you can even reach out yourself and stop it. They claim the IWTSTH rule is a "reward." That you get to see how the rest of the table plays as a reward for playing in their games.

Now, even if they wanted to make some nutty rule like that, the fact is, it slows down the game considerably, not to mention the constant arguments it causes. I literally saw one table come to blows over this rule when I was there.

It not only is simply ridiculous, but it hurts their bottom line. They collect less rake at raked games due to so many less hands being dealt per hour.

I think Tommy has written a better article than I could ever write on the abuses of the IWTSTH rule.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

DesertCat · #9 01-03-2005, 08:05 PM

Thanks again, Felicia. I have seen this at my normal tables (6-12) at casinoAZ. I knew enough to know their policy seemed excessively leniant, but didn't know the acronym.

Abagadro · #10 01-04-2005, 08:38 PM

Sorry this isn't responsive, but I wanted to ask you a question when I saw your post and that you played in that room regularly.

I played there New Year's Eve for the first time (was down there for the Fiesta bowl) and was shocked at how LAG it was. Capped multiple ways before flop with people playing absolute garbage. It actually hurt me pretty bad at first until I got the vibe and then was able to come back and then some. I asked a couple of guys at the table who said they were locals and they said it was a typical game down there. This was in one of the 4-8 games.

If that is how they play I would see that as being a very profitable (if high variance) room.

I'd be interested in your thoughts. Thanks.