Because I'm a little rusty... Good or bad?

[InfernoLL]

If you're going to fold for one bet when a harmless river card comes, FOLD EARLIER IN THE HAND.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to fold for one bet when a harmless river card comes, FOLD EARLIER IN THE HAND.

[/ QUOTE ]just because you are using CAPSLOCK doesnt make you right, DONKEY.

you played this hand fine, guido. i like the river fold... you are never good here. it can be tough to fold in these spots on the net, cause for all you know, this guy could be wasted playing his hand blind or something... nonetheless, i still dont think you have the pot odds here.

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to fold for one bet when a harmless river card comes, FOLD EARLIER IN THE HAND.

[/ QUOTE ]


That was my first thought too, but that K changes a little, so thats why I said what I said to begin with.

[golferbrent]

I my opinion both of those hands would bet the turn as well b/c they have picked up additional outs. IMO once you just called all the way... you need to call getting 13.5-1 on the end. The pyschological damage of laying down the best hand here could be great.

I do agree with you that there are not a lot of hands that someone who 3-bets preflop and continues to bet you can beat. However, here is another variable to consider... your history on this player is not all that great. Here is another reason to call on the end... you can add some more history to your knowledge of this opponent. The fact that he appears to be tight and aggressive through 40 hands is not going to get me to lay down top pair when you have put no pressure on him at all throughout the play of the hand.

The end is a must call!

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
heres my thought process:

I think check raising the flop, may help to define his hand a little better (beacuse even though the sample size is tiny, he seems loose). If he calls the flop c/r, Id lead turn, and fold to a raise. If he 3 bets the flop, I call, and then check/fold the turn (unless you had odds for the 4 outer there, I foget), and then check/fold the river. Id be able to sleep a little more sound my way, but I dunnoooooo.....nh

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to jump in here...ok yeah I do. Isn't this one of those spots where you're either way ahead or way behind in the flop. Seems to me like if hero's behind he's got 3 outs (at best), and if he's ahead villian has 2 outs. This is a common spot for misplaced aggression, we don't want to define our hand for him, and give him a chance to play correctly.

IMO the flop and turn are good. I'd lead the river, given that hero checked I think you have to call. The pot is huge, and granted there aren't any hands that a "reasonable" player bets again on the river (except for a total bluff), but we don't know that he's reasonable. Combine that with the fact that you never gave villian reason to think you had an Ace he might be making a hopeless bluff or a really thin value bet.

Given the way you played the flop/turn, the river is a must call, IMO.

lf

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
30/60 Party, 10 handed

2 folds and a loose player raises (60/9), the guy to his left 3-bets (33/14 but only after 40 hands, his postflop aggression factors are 2; 5; 4 for what that's worth), the next one cold call (30/15 again 40 hands), SB calls (23/13) and I call with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Good or bad?

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to the 3-bettor and he bets out, 2 calls and I call, PFR folds. Good or bad?

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Same guy bets out again, preflop cold caller folds, SB calls and I call. Good or bad?

River: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He bets out again, SB folds, I fold. Good or bad?

Thanks,

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]

good to see you posting again Guido (I haven't been posting much either lately...kind of sick of the whole 2+2 thing).

You played this hand fine. Preflop is marginal but you are getting about 7:1 and that is just good enough with your hand.

On the flop first I thought about check-raising, but now I realize it would be terrible - it wouldn't defend your hand in the slightest and you are opening yourself up to be raised on the turn by BOTH hands that beat you and stubborn big pairs that don't.

Then I thought maybe betting out would be best, but that would accomplish very little - all the better hands are raising you, TT and under are flat out folding, or flatcalling hoping to improve (and thereby you are not protecting your hand). The only real hand you beat that might raise is something like KQs or KK which is not often enough to warrant a bet.

I prefer a check because if he has a small pair, he may give up and just check, in which case a late position bettor may bet and you can raise to protect now. If miraculously you check he bets and the others fold, I think it would be time to go for a check-call check-call bet line, UNTIL the turn and river bring what they did.

On the turn, as you said, you are either against a small pair that is quite stubborn (that will check behind the river 95% of the time unimproved), or a hand that has you crushed aside from the gutshot. Betting out accomplishes nothing unless he has exactly JJ (extremely unlikely) or TT - as he will either fold right away with very few outs (hence it is not bad to give a free card here), or he will bluff raise you and you will just have to pay more or fold the best hand. Obviously he will raise all the hands that beat you as well.

On the river, you are done, you have nothing, fold. Good fold. This is a fold very few 2+2ers can make. THE ONLY HAND he could possibly have here that you beat is AT. He will NOT bet anything else with two seperate people calling him down. Maybe if it was heads up - he would give one last desperation bet - but not 3 handed.

By the way, his street-specific aggression factor is worthless over that many hands. Even his overall postflop aggression is almost worthless too. Small sample size.



-DrG

[rory]

how many combinations of at could he have
how many combinations of aj could he have
how many combinations of hands beat him
what are his pot odds
his pot odds are big

[Guido]

What % of the time do you guys think my hand is still good? Just saying that I have to call because the pot is huge, isn't enough.

Personally I don't think I'm good here even 5% of the time.

Thanks,

Guido

Bad, if you cal the turn, call the river... top pair good kicker... he could have fired the last barrel with spades or an A with weaker kicker, T?

[Guido]

if you cal the turn, call the river

Why do a lot of you guys say that? I called the turn because of my gutshot and since I didn't hit on the river it was a fold. I agree that the play you suggest is right in general but not always. I think this is one of them.

If the turn wasn't a king I might have bet out on the turn myself.

Thanks,

Guido