boring standard AK

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Without a read, I think you have to pay off this river bet, although I doubt that it is +EV for this hand. However, knowing what his hand is will help your future reads so I think it's +EV for the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

have to? i guess you have to put MP on AQ and SB on KQ?

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I really think you should take a free card on the turn at least some of the time. I don't think a bet here is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

right on the money. finally someone has sense

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling the river is standard and +EV for his hand. You could either see a well played TT or a nice river play from AJ, yet AQ is a possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about the turn bet, is that good too?

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
With that flop and 2 other opponents, I'd take my free card on the turn.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

good point

[steveyz]

Don't forget about AT/KT/A7s

The vast majority of the time hero is beaten here, which is why I think a call might be -EV for this hand. But I think it's not significantly -EV, and having information for future hands would tip this to a call for me.

[thedorf]

hi nykenny,

I'm having trouble agreeing with you and with disagreeing with you about the turn bet. In my mind, assuming no reads on players, this is a bet that should be randomized. I would maybe even say that 50 % of the time this bet should be made and 50% of the time it should be checked. There are plenty of people out there who call with AQ on this turn and there are also plenty of people who fold a pair of tens or smaller. In fact if I were the MP1, I would very seriously consider folding pocket tens after the turn bet, especially after the SB calls.

One other thing I have to say about, "assuming no reads on players" is that one should assign a read to all new players even before they see their first hand. In this case our hero was playing online 15/30 (i can't remember the site) and in my opinion should "read" these new players as typical. Therefore, if his typical 15/30 player has a tendency to call a flop bet with overcards but fold to a double sized turn bet with the same holding, the turn bet is good.

The problem with what I just said though is that there are two opponents. Would they both call the flop with overcards or small pocket pairs? Not sure. I still don't think it's a cut and dried situation.

By the way, I like the river call. It smacks of an idiot taking a shot, or one who should not have been check-calling that flop and turn (pocket 3s or something).

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of people out there who call with AQ on this turn and there are also plenty of people who fold a pair of tens or smaller. In fact if I were the MP1, I would very seriously consider folding pocket tens after the turn bet, especially after the SB calls.


[/ QUOTE ]
once the pot gets big, it's almost not possible to push out people holding a JX or TT or even a worse pair (in this game). the consideration here is really between the possiblity between both opponent missed and at least one opponent hit that J high board. also should be considered is the showdown value of AK in this 3-way pot. turn bet is less wrong if hero's hand has no perceived showdown value.

river call is bad because for the purpose of picking a desporate bluff from AQ AT A7, hero should have raised to ensure SB's exit.

Kenny

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
river call is bad because for the purpose of picking a desporate bluff from AQ AT A7, hero should have raised to ensure SB's exit.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about that, and I was actually more scared of the sb than the other guy, and I just haven't became sophisticated/balsy enough to make this raise. Perhaps I need to look into it more.

Sometimes I take the free turn card, Sometimes I don't. I think in this hand betting is the best because it plays itself.

situation 1 - I can fold to a SB checkraise because he as to be thinking about mp1 and it's not likely to be a bluff

situation 2 - sb calls, mp1 c/r I call and fold to any non AK on the river.

situation 3 - sb folds mp1 c/r I call him down.

Any HU situations on the river with either player I check behind less I improve or call their bet.

I make it a pretty regular habbit of not folding AK high for one more bet on the river. Perhaps it's a leak, but I've picked off so many bluffs in HUGE pots that I actually think it's +ev. Even if it's not for the hand, calling people down makes them less likely to put a move on you.

mp1 had KQo, sb folded and MHIG.

[jfresh]

What's the difference here at the turn that people encourage a check, as opposed to Roy Hobb's thread where people encouraged him to bet? I know a lot of it is based on feel, but I just want to know the reasoning behind it all.

[Nightwish]

I'd say MP1 has AK/AQ/AJ, which makes this call +EV.

Kenny, do you mind not posting a followup to every response stating the same thing? The turn bet is fine. If you think it's not, state your objections once and be done with it. People can judge your argument on its merits, not on the number of times you repeat it.