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Old 03-16-2005, 12:47 PM
aces_full aces_full is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 72
Default Can you get away from TP/TK and overpairs at \"new\" Party NL25?

Deep stack NL is my game. I have played at PS,Pardaise, and a little at UB. I also play in a home game with no cap on the buy in, so everyone is usually 200-500 BB deep. I never played at Party before because I just don't like the 50BB max bu-in. I think it's simply not NL and not suited to my style of play. I have played in a $1/$2 NL game with a $100 buy-in and my strategy was basically to wait for the nuts. If I got AA,KK, or QQ I would try to get all-in either pre flop or on the flop and hopefully double up. Same thing with AK-if I hit TP/TK or better it would usually wind up in the middle on the flop. The way I see it, with so little money in play it's almost impossible to get away from TP/TK or overpairs unless the board was scary.

In the 100BB max games and deeper I always believed that the best way to keep from getting broke is not to get married to one pair hands like TP/TK or overpairs. I learned this lesson after getting broke a few times-it has made it easier, even the dreaded AA fold [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

So now I open an account at Party because I heard the players were bad and they just changed their NL structure to match the sites I was used to. Well I wasn't prepared for just how bad these players at the $25 NL are.

The first thing I noticed is that raises get no respect. At Stars, even at .10/.25 NL a PF raise of $1.25 took the blinds almost 50% of the time, and if not usually only got one or two callers. I even found at particularly tight NL50 and NL100 tables that I had to notch my raises down to 3 or 4 BB's just to get any action because of my tight image. I almost always took the pot with a bet on the flop, but if I was beat, getting away was easier because the pot was relaitvely small.

The first time I raised a hand at Party 6-max I made it $1.25 to go and got four callers!!!!!!! Then I quickly realized something: The fish from the old Party NL structure had not adjusted to the change from .25/.50 blinds to .10/.25 blinds, and PF raises of $2 to $3 still seems to be the norm-or the other extreme I see is many more players min-raising, and nobody folds to them.

Now here's the scenario: I raise with AA to $2 and get 3 callers, there's already $8 in the pot before the flop. If I bet the pot on the flop and somebody C/R's me all in (providing a non-scary flop) how can I get away? Or what if I bet and simply get one caller? There's $24 in the pot and my opponent checks to me now what?


My strategy so far has been to either call the all-in and pray, or push and pray myself. I just haven't found any other strategy yet. This is complicated by what I percieve to be the wild and unpredictable players at Party. They overplay everything and won't fold with any piece of the flop. The players I have run into come in two types: loose aggressive and loose passive. I had a guy call my PF raise with Q4s when I had AA. He flopped to a board of KQX and called me down all the way and ended up doubling me up. I also had another AA hand where a LAG raised PF to .50 with JTo from UTG. I make it $2.00 to go from UTG+1 and one caller behind us leaves 3 seeing the flop. Flop is J-rag-rag and he leads for $3, I reraise to $10, other player folds, LAG goes all in, I close my eyes and hit call and MHIG. The funny part is after I broke this guy he starts going off about how I am a fish because all I do is sit around waiting for big hands and then I overplay them when I get them. He goes on telling me how horrible my call of his all in was and how he was supposed to go to dinner but he was going to stay around and play more because it wouldn't be long unitl he got my whole stack.

My problem is that I can't figure out if I am beat when my opponents not only will raise and reraise with absolute garbage, but the will grossly overplay the second best hand. So far I have been lucky and ended up on the winning side of all but one of these confrontations. I got stacked when a LAG with a PFR of 25% reraised my $1.50 raise with QQ to $5. The flop was rags, I bet, he pushed, I called, he had KK-reload and move on.

I guess my general impression is that even with the new blind structure, the game still plays like .25/.50. Which brings me to my next question: How do I adjust my raise calling standards when players are routinely raising $2-$3, and $5 reraises are not uncommon?
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