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  #51  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:14 PM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Posts: 7
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

for the record, i am 100% sure double down is a winner even at the 215s. hands like this dont affect you a HUGE amount long term, but they sure as hell add to the roi if you play them right. he is a pro, does make quite a bit of money. pro does not mean perfect. go easy on him hes really workin out this hand. holla
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  #52  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:17 PM
FlyWf FlyWf is offline
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Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

I think you need to get a little less confident in your reads. Who reraises A2 or 33 that flatcalls with KJo? He bets out with 3rd pair but checks 2 overcards and a flush draw?

"If he had any made hand at all, he would've bet out. if he had a hand like 2 overs and a spade draw, he would go for a check raise[..] If I bet 1000-1500, he'll reraise with 2 cards bigger than a 7 if he also has a spade or straight draw."
That's also impropably precise, but, uh, what's the advantage of pushing again? You got called by the absolute worst(for him, though he can't know his king isn't live) hand he calls with and were a slight favorite. Every other hand he calls you with ranges from slight favorite to absolutely crushing you.
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  #53  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

[ QUOTE ]
for the record, i am 100% sure double down is a winner even at the 215s. hands like this dont affect you a HUGE amount long term, but they sure as hell add to the roi if you play them right. he is a pro, does make quite a bit of money. pro does not mean perfect. go easy on him hes really workin out this hand. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Thanks for clarifying, raptor. I still think this post shows a huge lack of understanding, but if you say he's a winning player at the $215s, I guess he is.

I'm moving to the $215s. holla
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  #54  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:22 PM
EnderW27 EnderW27 is offline
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Posts: 16
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

Well you've given us two situations:

1) You bet 1500 and he goes all in with any two. Clearly if this is the case then the best play is to bet 1500 and call his all in. It's absolutely the best way to win this tournament.

2) You bet 1500 and he goes all in with two cards better than 50% to beat you. This is WILDLY different from situation one and yet the answer could still be the same. Let's say he's a 60% favorite on his push. You have the pot odds to call and your tournament isn't on the line for calling his all in. So if you're willing to gamble a bit, the optimal play is to STILL bet 1500 knowing he'll go in and then to call him.

But what you did is option 3: go all in to begin with. Now, you ask on here why some "respected 2+2ers" thought this was a horrible play. Here's a question for you: what hands will he call you with? Answer that question honestly and you'll see why going all-in isn't the right move.
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  #55  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:26 PM
Double Down Double Down is offline
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Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

"We all said you should bet t1500 because you told us that that's the right play"


I never said this. I didn't bet 1500, I pushed.
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  #56  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:27 PM
Double Down Double Down is offline
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Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

"Wow. Thanks for clarifying, raptor. I still think this post shows a huge lack of understanding, but if you say he's a winning player at the $215s, I guess he is.

I'm moving to the $215s. holla"

LOL see you there Noah [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #57  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

[ QUOTE ]
"We all said you should bet t1500 because you told us that that's the right play"


I never said this. I didn't bet 1500, I pushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said this when you told us that you're a favorite against his range and betting 1500 gets all your money in.
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  #58  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:35 PM
Kristian Kristian is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 157
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

Once again your reads are strangely precise and, well, just strange. He would check raise any 2 cards bigger than 7's with no spades? What??? Your reads make no sense, and doing a lot of math to figure out what to do against some strange moves on strange hand ranges is just not a very appealing job.

What I can say is that against a sensibly aggressive player, I probably make a standard bet and fold if he checkraises me all-in.

I don't mean to be an ass or anything, but from here it really looks like you need to think some more about how you use reads and analyze hands. This whole discussion has been largely unproductive mostly because your 'reads' are unrealistic, which destroys the content of the actual hand.
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  #59  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:47 PM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for the record, i am 100% sure double down is a winner even at the 215s. hands like this dont affect you a HUGE amount long term, but they sure as hell add to the roi if you play them right. he is a pro, does make quite a bit of money. pro does not mean perfect. go easy on him hes really workin out this hand. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Thanks for clarifying, raptor. I still think this post shows a huge lack of understanding, but if you say he's a winning player at the $215s, I guess he is.

I'm moving to the $215s. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

it does show a fair amount of misunderstanding. what better way to learn than to get railed a bit? i railed him on aim last night and told him to post it for other perspectives. the MOST i ever learn is when people keep telling me im wrong and i defend my position. i love it. i learn a ton from it, and i enjoy debating. (arguing). holla
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  #60  
Old 12-06-2005, 08:09 PM
SCfuji SCfuji is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 467
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

question

would limping everything on the button here be terrible against mr. maniac with the intention of limp-reraising all-in preflop with good heads up hands like pairs and high cards? im thinking this will give hero control of the match by slowing down the villain.
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