Strategy Adjustments for playing against SSH disciples

[PseudoPserious]

(Obligatory intro

Hi Ed. Love the book.

(Now on with the post

As folks get their grubby little hands on Ed's book (not on MY copy, mind you, wash your hands first), what changes do you think you'll see in the friendly 3/6 game at your local Indian casino?

How do you attack someone who knows, understands, and applies the information in SSH?

How would you attack a table full of players who know, understand, and apply the information in SSH?

How many SSH-disciples seated at your table would it take before the concepts in SSH no longer apply?

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For what it's worth, I recall reading a thread that discussed how you'd play against a WLLHE Jones-disciple. It included advice like 'bet hands like second pair to push him off his "missed" flops'.

Just curious what you think,
PP

[TimM]

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How do you attack someone who knows, understands, and applies the information in SSH?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you punish correct play?

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How would you attack a table full of players who know, understand, and apply the information in SSH?

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Find a different table.

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How many SSH-disciples seated at your table would it take before the concepts in SSH no longer apply?

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When the game conditions described in the book no longer apply.

[PseudoPserious]

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How do you punish correct play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, perhaps I was too flippant and/or general with my original questions. Let's try this one:

You're playing in a live small stakes hold'em game. The game conditions are as described in the preface. At the table are 8 fish, you, and one player who is correctly applying the concepts described in SSH with the odd exception that he views you as another one of the fish...that is, he doesn't give you credit for also understanding poker ideas. How do you change your play versus the SSH-disciple?

As an example, I'd never try to bluff the SSH-disciple on the river when a scare card came. SSH argues that in a large pot, the chance that your opponent is bluffing generally makes a heads-up call with a marginal hand profitable. Furthermore, if the pot was three handed, with SSH in the middle, I'd lead out when my draw DOES get there (instead of trying for a check-raise), expecting SSH to raise with both made hands (for value) and marginal hands (trying to prevent the overcall). I do not dispute that SSH's advice is correct, but that's an example of a change I'd make against an SSH-disciple vice some other opponent.

Is this a worthless exercise? If I'm going to play against folk who apply the ideas in this book, I'd prefer to have something other than "aww, shucks, he's playing correctly, nothing I can do, guess I better find a different game" to fall back on.

Cheers,
PP

Edit: Well, I guess *never* is a little too stringent. Let's just say "I'd be very hesitant to..." instead.

[Ed Miller]

Is this a worthless exercise?

In a game with 8 fish and one other strong player, where does your money come from? Whom will you be playing most hands against? How much do you GAIN by optimizing your play against the other good player?

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I'd just avoid tangling with the one other good player without a monster hand to back me up. There's one local game in my area that is very tough. I could beat it, but why? I'll stick to the soft games where I outclass the other players.

Ed's book will sell many, many copies, but few of the real fish out there will heed the advice given. SSH will make great players out of good players and COULD make winners out of losers, if they would only listen to the advice therein. Fortunately most won't (sorry Ed).

[TimM]

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If I'm going to play against folk who apply the ideas in this book, I'd prefer to have something other than "aww, shucks, he's playing correctly, nothing I can do, guess I better find a different game" to fall back on.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're implying that there must be some set of exploitable characteristics common to players who apply the concepts in SSH. If it were that simple, wouldn't it be in the book as something to avoid?

Nobody is perfect, and not everyone who reads SSH is going to become a clone of everyone else who has read it. If a player has weaknesses or exploitable tendencies, after reading SSH and whatever else they have read, they are going to be fairly unique to that individual, so you are going to have to figure those out at the table. But, as Ed has already said, if there are 8 fish at the table, where are your efforts better spent?

[Nottom]

Honestly, the best thing you could do is probably just play your normal game. Give him the chance to screw-up by treating you like a fish. If he doesn't realize you're not calling him down with bottom pair and limping with junk, he will be the one making mistakes and not you.

[PseudoPserious]

Point well taken.

Here's where my questions came from: I have a regular home game where about half of the players study the literature and the other half are social players. As I started to study your book, I tried to view the material from two perspectives: (1) how the material can improve my game, and (2) how I anticipate my home game changing as others learn the material, and consequently what I'll need to do to counteract their new style of play. I thought the second viewpoint was interesting, and was wondering if others agreed. Apparently not [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Cheers,
PP

[PseudoPserious]

[ QUOTE ]

You're implying that there must be some set of exploitable characteristics common to players who apply the concepts in SSH. If it were that simple, wouldn't it be in the book as something to avoid?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd think that there must be some set of characteristic common to players who apply the SSH concepts. Namely, that they play much closer to "correct, aggressive" poker than other players do.

Perhaps "attack" and "exploitable" aren't quite the right words...maybe my original questions should have been phrased something like "How should I adjust my play to offer a lesser target to these players?"

PP

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
(
How do you attack someone who knows, understands, and applies the information in SSH?

How would you attack a table full of players who know, understand, and apply the information in SSH?

How many SSH-disciples seated at your table would it take before the concepts in SSH no longer apply?


PP

[/ QUOTE ]

It is like the Crane techinque in Karate Kid,, if down properly no can defend againist it.