Does this structure promote absurdly tight play?

[PseudoPserious]

Hi all,

One of our local indian casinos recently changed the structure of its $1-5 stud game.

Before, it used to be no-ante with a forced bet by the low card. This bet wasn't live, but could be anywhere from $1-5 based on how much the low-card liked his hand.

Now, the game is no-ante with a forced $1 bet by the winner of the previous pot. The winner can bet more than $1, but has to do so blind, before the cards are dealt. The bring-in is not live, so if the bet gets called around, you don't have the opportunity to raise.

The $1 blind bet by the winner could just as easily be a white chip taped to the dealer button, so in effect there's a single $1 blind bet at the very first hand, and for the remainder of the session, there's no blind bet at all (the pot is just $1 smaller than people think it is).

With nothing in the pot at the start except the right to play your hand for free (unless the pot is raised), and with no blind/ante money being at risk ever, is the proper way to play this game simply to be absurdly tight?

I.e., Should you wait for trips and (if you're feeling saucy) an over-pair that you can raise the max on, provided that there are some limpers before you (so that you can win something more than the dealer button)? Or am I just being silly?

I know that low limit stud is more of a 'trapping' game than a 'knock people out' game, but with absolutely no penalty to endless folding, and such a small pot at the start, why play any other way?

Thanks,
PP

P.S. I'm not a stud player, but if you sit in this game for an hour before their daily tournaments, you get extra tourney chips. So, no, I don't mind sitting and folding until I get trips.

[Andy B]

What a terrible structure. You are correct in your assessment. It is probably correct to play more hands, since presumably your opponents will play badly, but with no ante and no forced bet, there is no penalty for playing only premium hands.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I luv stud. But I DESPISE 1-5 stud because it's conducive only to a bunch of old tightass bitties sitting around being crabby, waiting for the nuts. Then this game comes along. I'd DONATE 10% of my chips NOT to have to play in it!

I luv what some casinos are doing, that is to make the small stud game 50c ante, $2 bring-in, 2-5 spread limit. Now you might get me in a stud game smaller than 5-10.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

See the essay by Mason in poker essays (? not sure which version and too lazy to go look) about the "rock" game. It's hold'em gone bad, just like this monstrocity.

al

[Cooling Heels]

Sounds like the 1/5 stud dealt at the Meskwaki poker
room in the mid 90's. They would throw a "dealer" button
from flop games onto the table to start a new game, then
subsequent pot winners would inherit the dealer button and
use it as a bring-in. They later switched to the more traditional low card bring-in for real money.

A better no-ante structure that I have seen at two reservation casinos
is 2/5 spreadlimit stud/8, 2/10 on the
river, with a $1 bring-in. After the bring-in, you can
limp for $2 or raise, and when action returns to the
bring-in, he can fold, call, or raise.


The $2 limp gets more dead money in the pot when the
low draws fold on 4th after pulling a brick, and the
double river bet gives better implied odds for chasing
with mediocre scoop draws.

It's still a tight game, but a step in the right direction.

[Big Jon]

That's a horrible structure. Unless the game is particularly good, you'd probably do better to find a better game with a more "traditional" structure, that is, one that includes antes.

[Duke]

That's why I don't play low limit stud.

~D

[PseudoPserious]

It's not particularly good, but if you sit in it for 2 hours prior to their daily tournament, you get a 50% bonus in tournament chips on your buy-in. The casino does this to draw folks into live games before their tournaments. I think it's funny that they changed to such a tight structure, since they're killing their rake and the dealer tokes by making the pots so small.

I played in a limit HE tournament there yesterday. If I hadn't had the extra bonus chips from playing the stud game, I'd have been knocked out just out of the money. As it was, I got lucky and snuck into 2nd place. That makes up for "playing" 2 hours of stud and not playing a single hand...although I'm not sure how many hands I'd have played in a more traditional structure, since my cards were truly horrible.

PP