AAA heads up: Should I try to get as much in on the flop as I can? - Page 2

Acesover8s · #11 08-02-2004, 04:43 PM

I reraise here, and my reason is this. The fact that he has raised you on the flop means that he certainly does not put you on AAA. Not many people will push a favored draw against the nuts with plenty of money to bet and two cards to come. THis player may be the exception however.

He is more likely to put you on two pair or a flush draw, with a set himself, most likely sixes. A lot of cards kill your action if he is on a 1 out draw. I reraise here and put it all in on the turn no matter what comes.

If you are wrong and he has a draw you have still not misplayed the hand, although if you could be certain of the hand a better way to play it is to wait for the safe turn card.

Either way, I'm committing my chips now.

JTG51 · #12 08-02-2004, 04:45 PM

If it were me I would reraise the pot and be happy to take down the money right in there and reraise him back, because usually players get tied into the hand once this type of action occurs and they usually won't let it go.

But if he's got 'only' a set or two pair with no redraw, taking down the money right now is a disaster for me. And I'm confident that this player was good enough to fold 22 or two pair to another pot sized raise. Afterall, my hand should be crystal clear at that point.

JTG51 · #13 08-02-2004, 04:46 PM

think that I would just call him, here, and take a look at the turn. If it is safe, then you are putting your money in with a MUCH bigger edge.

That's what I thought about at the time, but in the end I decided I wasn't confident that I'd play the turn well with both of us having a lot of money left if a scary card came off.

JTG51 · #14 08-02-2004, 04:52 PM

I reraise here and put it all in on the turn no matter what comes.

That's exactly what I did, or at least planned to. I reraised the maximum and he thought forever, almost using up his entire time bank. He finally folded saying he had a set of deuces and a small flush draw. If that's true, he must have played a pretty junky hand, but I have no reason not to believe him. Especially given how long he thought about the decision.

So now for the follow up question. For those of you that advocate a call, what's my plan on the turn if a wheel card or a diamond hits and he bets the pot again? His bet would be about $55, and I'd have about $140 left.

JTG51 · #15 08-02-2004, 04:57 PM

If you just call the flop, what would you do on the turn if a diamond hit?

turnipmonster · #16 08-02-2004, 05:02 PM

I almost certainly checkraise allin if he underbets at all. in this situation he wouldn't have folded but any player that you are going to be slowplaying the flop against is capable of laying down a small flush on the turn. the big problem is if he checks behind on the turn.

--turnipmonster

nicky g · #17 08-03-2004, 05:42 AM

I'm hoping that doesn't happen [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. Seriously, that screws the plan up big time. But on the other hand it happens less than 1 in 4 times. I might well bet out as even if he does have the flush (and I put him more on a made hand than a draw here) he may not have a very good one, and you can represent that reasonably convincingly, having bet out and called a raise on the flop. Sometimes I check and probably fold depending on the bet size. But most of the time a flush card doesn;t come and he bets out again, which puts you in a situation to win a lot of money.

pete fabrizio · #18 08-03-2004, 11:09 AM

Yeah, my advice is don't listen to those fools who are telling you not to reraise here. You drove out an opponent who had 10 outs, don't lose any sleep over it.

Here's a rule of thumb for this kind of situation that's so good I shouldn't tell it to you: When in position, consider slowplaying. When out of position, don't.

JTG51 · #19 08-03-2004, 05:01 PM

When in position, consider slowplaying. When out of position, don't.

Yeah, that rule isn't exclusive to PLO, and it's one I usually stick to. I just thought that the combined chance that this guy might have just one out, might fold if I reraise, and might double me up if I slowplay was good enough that this might be a good time for it. Guess not.

crockpot · #20 08-04-2004, 05:35 AM

i would usually reraise. the main reason is that he has position on you. if this weren't true, you could see his reaction to the turn card and get the money in there no matter what if you're ahead. with him behind you, however, it may be difficult to play the turn to maximize your profit, especially if a card that could have completed a draw hits, but he doesn't actually have that draw.

note that when you have position, the turn is much easier to play. if a diamond hits, he will most likely check if he doesn't have a flush (since he puts you on a flush draw when you call the flop raise). this way you can assure the turn gets bet.

if your opponent is really a good player, a low set is unlikely; he would rarely play 66xx unless it was part of two pair or a hand like 8766. and 543x is also unlikely. i would suspect he has something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] x.

one seemingly minor detail is somewhat important: because the ace on the flop isn't of the flush suit, he could easily be raising on two pair and a nut flush draw, or top pair and the nut flush draw. this factor makes a diamond more likely fatal for you.