Huge difference in competition- MTT vs cash

[DVO]

Some quick background, to put my views into context:

After mostly playing online MTT's for the past two years, with good success ( 275 tourneys, avg size 300, 5 wins, 23 Final tables), I have been playing more cash games lately. 5000 hands at full table Party $200NL and $400NL, which is not many. I am barely ahead at the cash games. From posting a few hands and reading this baord diligently, I also know I am a mediocre cash player at this point, inferior to my tournament play for sure.

Having said all this:

I am stunned at how much tougher ( and tighter) the cash games are. Or, to put it better, I am stunned at how many inferior players populate the MTT's. A typical MTT table will have 1-4 poor players through level 4, and 1-2 poor players pretty deep into the tourney. That is a significant edge for a good player. I am speaking of the $100 tourneys mostly.

Is this because people play these things like the lottery
( i.e., small investment to win a lot, hey , let's gamble!)?

I wonder if I'm making the wrong comparison - i.e, $100 MTT's are comparable to $25NL?

I just don't get it. Thoughts? I'm going to post in both forums. thanks.

I did things in the exact opposite fashion as you, but found the exact same thing. However, I started at 25nl, and with the $11 MTT's (PP $1000 guarantees), and the same holds throughout.

Im pretty sure of the cause too. If you're the average donk, sitting at home watching GREAT players like Moneymake, and you wanna play too, would you rather spend your money at some boring-[censored] cash table, or an exciting multi-table tournament?

[DVO]

"If you're the average donk, sitting at home watching GREAT players like Moneymake, and you wanna play too, would you rather spend your money at some boring-[censored] cash table, or an exciting multi-table tournament? "

Agreed - but why has it evolved this way? I have played wild cash games, and they are far more exciting than a comparable MTT - because it's for real money. So if the adrenaline junkies are looking for action, why wouldn't they congregate at cash tables?

Maybe it's a bankroll issue - Easier to gamble with $100 in an MTT, hoping to win $2500-$5,000, than to try to take $500 and do that at a cash game.

[kitaristi0]

ESPN is to blame. All the Moneymaker wannabes see NL on the tv and think "I want to win the WSOP main event and 10 million dollars". So they gravitate towards MTTs.

[LethalRose]

Luck is a much larger function in MTT's. Also the ability to rebuy in cash games and the fact that most of the time there isnt a stack which can bully people around. The main reason why cash games are so much more difficult than a MTT is the blinds dont rise in a cash games, nobody needs to steal the blinds or accumulate chips for the final table.

I play cash games a lot and its my usual game. Being a good cash game player can give you a huge advantage over your run of the mil tournament player. I think MTT's can be much more profitable and without the grind of cash games which i hate. I enjoy playing MTT's much more than cash games. there have been several MTT'ers who have moved onto large cash games after success in MTT's. and vice versa. both games require specific skills and having a mix of both is a good thing. However I think playing cash games can hurt MTT play. I mainly focus on MTT"s and play some cash games here and there. SNG's are good practice too.

yeah, my cash game tore up my early MTT game before I realized what I was doing. First round... AJs? Hell yeah, pump in a 4xBB raise, it'll protect my big pairs later.... oh wait, I have no more chips.

oh, and DVO, to answer the question you asked of me, I think its psychological. On ESPN, how do the tournaments function? They have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Do cash games? not really, and most of these donks dont wanna be Joey Kanish. The fact that SNG's look like a final table is the only reason they're so easy to clean up on.

[kuro]

Another aspect nobody has mentioned is the psychological difference between playing with chips in a MTT and playing with cash in a cash game. People play tighter when they know that they stand to win real money right now or lose real money right now compared to losing 15% of their starting stack.

Absolutely, thats why I started out donking it up in 10 dollar SNG's with a $50 bankroll. good times.

[Sluss]

[ QUOTE ]
Another aspect nobody has mentioned is the psychological difference between playing with chips in a MTT and playing with cash in a cash game. People play tighter when they know that they stand to win real money right now or lose real money right now compared to losing 15% of their starting stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boom! Nail right on the head. When I push in a cash game for all $115 you have in front of you, it is much scarier then when I push in a MTT and the guy thinks, "Oh well, there is always another tournament, you have to take chances to win."

meanwhile, I get no love for the well-placed Rounders reference.

sigh