Two Plus Two Older Archives Decision based on your ROI
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#1
12-30-2005, 04:58 AM
 slimbob Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Berlin Posts: 2

For example:

Assumption: You have an ROI of 50%. (I know this is ridiculous high but its only a theoretical assumption)

You play an 100+9\$ SNG at party. All 10 players have 1000\$ stack.

Blinds are 75/150 and small blind with 1000\$ stack push with AKs.

Assumption: You know that he has AKs. You have TT.

Do you have to call because its +\$EV?

Do you fold because these decisions lower your ROI?

Ok i know this is only a theoretical discussion. I am only curious if your ROI can have influence at your decisions.

Best regards
slimbob
#2
12-30-2005, 05:01 AM
 swiftrhett Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 61
Re: Decision based on your ROI

It is -\$EV to call. Oops, not with blinds that high. Remember though, taking a coinflip with 10 players is -\$EV, even if it is slightly EV
#3
12-30-2005, 05:04 AM
 lorinda Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: England Posts: 2,478
Re: Decision based on your ROI

This is the reason you will get different advice about playing identical hands at different limits. The opponents play better at higher limits, which in turn lowers your ROI which changes the way you play some hands.
A classic case of this would be laying down bigger hands in \$11 games in some situations because you can "wait for a better chance" that may not turn up in a \$200 game.

Lori
#4
12-30-2005, 05:08 AM
 11t Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 283
Re: Decision based on your ROI

Why would your ROI ever come into any decision that you would make?

Also I doubt how +EV calling with AKs is in the scenario you described.
#5
12-30-2005, 05:14 AM
 lorinda Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: England Posts: 2,478
Re: Decision based on your ROI

[ QUOTE ]
Why would your ROI ever come into any decision that you would make?

Also I doubt how +EV calling with AKs is in the scenario you described.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing &lt;insert your version of best player in the world here&gt; heads up with deep stacks then you would be happy with a coin flip, however if you were playing &lt;insert idiot who you hate here&gt; then you would not.

Lori
#6
12-30-2005, 05:54 AM
 slimbob Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Berlin Posts: 2
Re: Decision based on your ROI

If I call here with TT against AKs I win 54% of these flips. And theres 225\$ dead money in the pot already. So its +\$EV.
#7
12-30-2005, 05:59 AM
 slimbob Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Berlin Posts: 2
Re: Decision based on your ROI

Ok I want to ask a more precisely question:

Your ROI reflects that you have an edge over the other players. It is possible to convert your ROI into that edge so that you should call and push dependent of your ROI?
For example: If your ROi is 0% you have to call with any edge. But assuming you know your exactly ROI (assumption) what edge you need to call? Example: You know that you have an ROI of 20%. What edge do you need to call?

Regards
slimbob
#8
12-30-2005, 06:17 AM
 GrekeHaus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Zoidberg, for THREE! Posts: 314
Re: Decision based on your ROI

[ QUOTE ]
Why would your ROI ever come into any decision that you would make?

Also I doubt how +EV calling with AKs is in the scenario you described.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the key things that seperates tournament poker from ring games is this exact idea. The fact that you can't reload if you go broke plays a significant role in decision making. In tournament poker, you will often find yourself passing on +EV situations for the reason that you will have bigger +EV situations later in the game.
#9
12-30-2005, 06:35 AM
 GrekeHaus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Zoidberg, for THREE! Posts: 314
Re: Decision based on your ROI

[ QUOTE ]

Your ROI reflects that you have an edge over the other players. It is possible to convert your ROI into that edge so that you should call and push dependent of your ROI?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. During any given tournament you have an expectation which is dynamic. So any game and any situation in any game will have different expectation. ROI is more of a general idea which expresses how well you handle all of these situations put together.

The general answer to your question is what I stated in my previous post. You should only pass on a positive expectation play if you can expect to get a higher expectation later. In STTs, this generally only happenes early in the tournament, and only if your edge is large.
#10
12-30-2005, 06:53 AM
 curtains Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 240
Re: Decision based on your ROI

What GrekeHaus said is basically correct. People who pass up +.3% edges late in a tournament are very bad poker players in my book.

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