Donkey Alert! Please Advise

[oaktoon]

final two tables in a live tourney-- $200 buy in. Prize structure is either a) winner take all/winner wins seat at WSOP main event or b) $4,000 first prize, followed by usual ratio of 2nd thru 9th. Basically it's a question of whether the final table is willing to chop at any point, or whether the chip leader(s) decide to go for broke. That element may play into the hand described below.

Total chips: 480,000

18 players left, so M is approx. 26,500.

Hero has 10,100 in cutoff position.

Blinds are 700-1400

UTG with about 15000 chips calls preflop

Mp+1 with approx. 20,000 raises to 5,200.

Hero goes all-in with JJ.

BB with 35,000 chips goes over the top.

MP folds.

BB turns over K9 suited.

Flop is K9x; adds insult to injury with 9 on turn for fullhouse.

MP had AJs-- no ace hits so hero would have doubled up plus if it was heads-up the other way.

Question: did BB make a smart move given the likelihood that he could isolate and the value of a huge chip stack in the ultimate negotiations about the prize? Or was K-9 vs. raise/reraise where certainly a high A hand and a strong pair were the likeliest scenarios a hand that should have been mucked?

(not too ticked of, mind you, since I had just hit a miracle 80 to 1 shot when my AK vs. JJ and a Jack on the flop had hit runner-runner Q and 10 just ten minutes earlier?

Ummm, he made a bad play? What do you want us to say? You shouldn't have reraised to isolate a raiser?

You should be happy he decided to go over the top with a worse hand.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
Question: did BB make a smart move given the likelihood that he could isolate and the value of a huge chip stack in the ultimate negotiations about the prize? Or was K-9 vs. raise/reraise where certainly a high A hand and a strong pair were the likeliest scenarios a hand that should have been mucked?


[/ QUOTE ]
I think you just want someone to tell you that the guy made a bad call. I'm not gonna validate your bad beat story. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[gobboboy]

He made an awful move, but that's not your concern. Don't teach him how to play correctly. You made the best move and you were 75% to win and missed. It's gonna happen 1 in 4 times. You only need to worry about your play in extracting as many chips from these people in situations JUST like these.

Don't post bad beats.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, he made a bad play? What do you want us to say? You shouldn't have reraised to isolate a raiser?

You should be happy he decided to go over the top with a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read the question he posed? Or did you just assume that since someone reraised his all in with K9 and won that it was a bad beat post?

Obviously the hand based on its own strength should be thrown away-- the question is, given OP's range for pushing, and the dead money BB can get in the pot with an overpush, and the value of having a big stack in this particular situation, is this move profitable? I don't know, but I'm going off to think about it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, he made a bad play? What do you want us to say? You shouldn't have reraised to isolate a raiser?

You should be happy he decided to go over the top with a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read the question he posed? Or did you just assume that since someone reraised his all in with K9 and won that it was a bad beat post?

Obviously the hand based on its own strength should be thrown away-- the question is, given OP's range for pushing, and the dead money BB can get in the pot with an overpush, and the value of having a big stack in this particular situation, is this move profitable? I don't know, but I'm going off to think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I did, and thought the answers should be fairly obvious. If someone raises, and someone else reraises all in, K9s is a hand that you shouldn't even think about playing in this situation. So of course it was a bad move, and no it shouldn't be there.

I thought that it was a rhetorical question, and a bad beat post, and not sure what could be learned from this besides that some people don't play well.

[oaktoon]

sorry I offended everyone's precious sensibilities, but i actually did not believe this was automatically a bad beat.

Pot had 2,100 plus 1400 call plus 5200 raise plus 10100 allin push from hero.

That's 18,800.

BB bets 8700 (once he gets isolation) to win 18,800. Slightly better than 2 to 1.

Plus payoff makes him dominant stack at table with decent chance of maintaining that status to the final table when negotiations about prize money would ensue.

K9 suited vs an underpair is not so far off from 2 to 1 as to make this a crazy play.