Death of a Thousand Cuts-- Advice and Commentary requested

[oaktoon]

For all the times when a tournament demise is directly linked to one big hand-- either misplayed or badbeated-- I've found there are plenty of other occasons when a series of hands spells or at least sets up one's doom.

Such was the case for me yesterday in Vegas. Please read the accounts of these four hands-- I'll be as brief as possible and tell me what you think.

116 players in a $60 + $40 rebuy tournament. All the action described below occurred in middle stages of tournament when Hero was one of a handful of chip leaders.

Hand One (the river bet)

Blinds 200-400

Hero raises 1200 with Ad5d from early position; one caller.

Flop Jd-x-x; Check-Check

Turn Qd. Hero bets 1000, caller reraises double. Needless to say, with 9 diamonds and the possibility that a paired ace might win the hand, hero calls. (Turns out caller had been slowplaying a set of jacks, though he never showed the hand, but from his commentary on river decision)

River the 5th diamond. Hero realizes that a smallish bet-- 1000-1500-- represents almost half of Caller's stack-- so why not go all-in and hope Caller will put Hero on bluff. Caller folds.

Hand Two (reaction to a flush draw)

Blinds still 200-400

Hero has approximately 13K in chips; opponent has about 10.5K-- they are two chip leaders at table.

Hero is BB and checks with 8-4. Opponent in middle position is only other caller.

Flop A-5c-4c.

Hero bets out 1200; Opponent raises to 3700.

Hero's play? I determine opponent is most likely on flush draw. Have not seen him limp in with an ace before. A call is the worst option-- given my hand, he's liable to have at least one and possibly two overcards-- i won't really know if he's hit or not. Plus the 9 clubs for the flush.

Choice is Push or Fold. Hero Folds, not wanting to commit 80% of his chips to the a) possibility that the call is made on the flush draw and the odds are close to 50-50 given the overcards, or b) I've misread the hand and the ace has paired.

Opponent admits afterward he was on flush draw.

Hand Three (to continue or not continue)

Blinds now 300-600. Hero raises to 2000 in 7 handed table UTG with A-10. Opponent (same one as the flush draw example-- we've moved tables) direectly to left says "I don't really want to call, but I guess I have to".

Hero puts him on A-J, or possibly A-Q or K-Q. Does not consider other real possibility-- a medium pair such as 88, 99, or 1010. Flop comes K blank, blank-- Hero must lead and checks-- scared of situation (the initial raise is about 20% of total chip stack). To continue commits a lot of chips to this hand. Turn brings a Q, and now Hero is pretty committed to the river, where an ace (perhaps) or a J will save the day. neither comes-- hand is checked down, and opponent tunrs over.... 99.

Continuation bet almost certainly would have driven him from hand, but if wrong, it would have crippled Hero.

Hand Four (dueces wild??)

Three shortstacks go in in front of Hero in BB with 22. To call is to commite 40% of chips to hand. Hero determines that the odds of one of those have three having dominating pair are too great to call. (Odds are as follows-- against 3 overcard hands, hero is 35% to win and obviously should call. Against one pair and two overcard hands it drops down to 16%)

Turns out no one has pair and to add insult to injury duece comes up on flop and hero would have busted three players.

How many of these hands were misplayed, in your opinion?

I think the worst decision i made was not to push against the flush draw. I think the others were all defensible even though they didnt work out.

[Superfluous Man]

I'll take a stab at this...

Hand 1: Stack sizes? I usually fold Ax sooted preflop from EP, but once I do raise it, I make a c-bet on that non-threatening flop. Heads up on the flop, a c-bet is almost never wrong. Your opponent made a huge mistake minraising the turn, and you made him pay for it (kind of). If you read him for a nit, then a smaller bet is better; whatever he'll call. But I like your thinking that he might see a big bet as a bluff; too bad you made this play against Phil Hellmuth Jr.

Hand 2: Call me a puss, but I check/fold the flop. This is a slightly behind (he has flush draw + 2 overs)/way behind (he has an ace, or a higher pocket pair) situation. A bet isn't going to make him fold a flush draw, and 3-bet jamming might not either. Keep your big stack and find someone else to pick on.

Hand 3: If you're not going to make a continuation bet on this flop, don't bother raising ATo utg preflop. You're going to miss the flop 2/3rds of the time, and your opponent can't fold if you don't bet.

Hand 4: Results-oriented. 99% of the time you'll be up against a pair here, and you're getting insufficient odds to call off 40% of your stack (even getting 4:1, you need to be 20% to win; if you ratchet down the percentage of time you're against at least one overpair to something less, maybe it becomes correct). Would you have posted this if the board ended up AKKQQ?

[adanthar]

1)Don't play a 60+40 tournament. I think that one speaks for itself, really.

1.1)Don't raise that from EP, don't generally check that flop, and I don't know why you'd bet the river when he likes his hand and there is no reason at all to put you on a flush.

2)Check/fold the flop against a loose limper with an ace on the board. A flush draw with overs is a favorite over your hand, BTW.

3)Fold preflop UTG.

4)Good.

[beset7]

I didn't get past 60+40.

[skoal2k4]

i believe $40 was for the rebuy

[oaktoon]

OK- different styles of play.

On not raising A5 suited from early position-- I generally don't. My assessment of this table was that I could be more aggressive and get away with it-- certainly the play of the guy with the jacks confirmed that view.

On not raising with low pair. one other player had limped in-- I think betting a small pair to determine one's status is a lot better than waiting around to lose. Against multiple players, of course not. Again, i think the key decision here was the reaction to the reraise, and I think pushing was the right play.

I should have mentioned that the A-10 raise was in a 7 handed game. I don't do it always, but sometimes i am going to get aggressive there. I agree that i should have been prepared to continue no matter what. His commentary is probably what threw me, since it suggested-- not a killer hand being slowplayed-- but instead a hand that was probably a little better than mine. And it was, but I failed to see the key to winning the hand, which was the continuation bet.

Thanks for the comments, though.

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't get past 60+40.

[/ QUOTE ]

He might be referring to the Binion's 60 + 40 rebuy.

[Kirkrrr]

Okay, here goes:

[ QUOTE ]
Hero raises 1200 with Ad5d from early position; one caller.

Flop Jd-x-x; Check-Check


[/ QUOTE ]

...Huh? If you're going to raise any two from EP (as I don't think you're raising this hand for value since unless you flop a flush or the wheel, you will not hit the flop), you MUST bet the flop. You raised from UTG, so you're representing a huge hand. I bet the flop and if called, let it go unless I'm against a known donk. Your bet on the river was correct. If nothing else, you didn't have to show that you're raising with Axs UTG [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

2) Quicky and easy fold. You gave it a shot, he's willing to play for his stack since the raise is 30% of it, with bottom pair I would not be willing to play for mine.
However, if you KNEW that he was on a flush draw, calling the flop and pushing a blank turn is another option. He'll have a hard time calling if he's any good. But I think you'll find a better spot to pick a fight than here.

3) Same as hand one - if you're going to raise from UTG for 20% of your stack, be willing to bet whether you hit or not. I personally probably would have folded pre-flop and waited to raise ATo in LP after it's been folded round to me. How was the table playing? Some tables allow you to raise UTG every orbit with any two and take the blinds - was this table this way as well?
Oh, definitely bet the turn. I'd half-pot it.

4) Fold.

Kirk

[Kirkrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
1)Don't play a 60+40 tournament. I think that one speaks for itself, really.

[/ QUOTE ]
I shuddered when I first saw that, but I think "+40" is the re-buy/add-on. I really, really hope so.

Kirk

[oaktoon]

yeah it was the rebuy.