My river play made me cringe. - Page 2

deepsquat · #11 12-02-2005, 01:53 AM

Flop play is good but you gotta bet the turn, otherwise dont 3bet the flop. Im not sure how your flop 3bet tells you you are behind a bigger ace.

The correct river play would have to be check/call but i usually bet this because i have 3 aces woooot!

istewart · #12 12-02-2005, 01:56 AM

Flop play would not have been my standard, I typically just check this and play according to the action. I think the reraise there is also quite thin with such a marginal kicker, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Given the flop 3-bet I think the turn is a must bet. Obviously this is even moreso the case given that it was checked through but either way I think this is a rather backwards way to play it.

River bet/call, like you said, is pretty bad. With no reads I like check/calling. Tough to fold to a raise against complete unknowns here but you're good here just about never when he raises (of course I haven't played this game so I could be off).

RunDownHouse · #13 12-02-2005, 02:04 AM

Ugh, your turn play is so much worse than your river play.

imported_leader · #14 12-02-2005, 02:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Push out the CO and maybe buy myself outs. I dunno. How would you play it? Agro hush style?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would generally check and see on the flop. If it's checked to button who bets, I think you have to raise because the pot is decent size and you have a good chance to knock out the two in the middle. I think when CO bets you in a tougher spot because there’s only one other guy in the middle. The problem is that we have to balance that fact that we're WA/WB CO most of the time and the fact we don't want to give odds to other players in the pot. To put it in a more concrete way, the advantage of a CR is that we are likely to lose UTG. The disadvantage is that he could 3-bet us with a worse hand and after he 3-bets I don't think you can call a turn bet. I would lead toward a CR here for another reason as well. I'm pretty uncomfortable with a turn check here if you c/c the flop and others come along. Therefore you loss much of the benefit of the WA/WB line in that you should be donking the turn and not letting CO bluff at it again.

ArturiusX · #15 12-02-2005, 02:22 AM

The CO folded.

imported_leader · #16 12-02-2005, 02:31 AM

Yeah...I was talking kinda theoretically. It’s hard to know what would have happened if you had checked the flop.

Transference · #17 12-02-2005, 02:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you think you're up against a bigger A. Specifically why did you 3-bet the flop if you thought that? IMO, if you're 3-betting the flop here you are bet/folding the turn almost always. Sometimes c/c the river after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This pot is huge on the flop. I suspect that it is often correct to 3bet here even if were are beat a high percentage of the time.

The problem sans reads is that we are beat a high percentage of the time and being first to act isnt helping us any. We can fold long shot draws, but we cant fold the obvious draw and we cant fold a better hand.

I don't think bet fold is a bad option on the turn at all. The way this flop was played I think people get silly there rarely enough that it doesnt much matter. The turn also pretty much kills our chance at a split which I guess might make a check a little more tempting.

On the river neither bet call or bet fold seem very attractive to me.

imported_leader · #18 12-02-2005, 03:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you think you're up against a bigger A. Specifically why did you 3-bet the flop if you thought that? IMO, if you're 3-betting the flop here you are bet/folding the turn almost always. Sometimes c/c the river after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This pot is huge on the flop. I suspect that it is often correct to 3bet here even if were are beat a high percentage of the time.

The problem sans reads is that we are beat a high percentage of the time and being first to act isnt helping us any. We can fold long shot draws, but we cant fold the obvious draw and we cant fold a better hand.

I don't think bet fold is a bad option on the turn at all. The way this flop was played I think people get silly there rarely enough that it doesnt much matter. The turn also pretty much kills our chance at a split which I guess might make a check a little more tempting.

On the river neither bet call or bet fold seem very attractive to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

But why lead the flop to begin with?

Transference · #19 12-02-2005, 03:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But why lead the flop to begin with?

[/ QUOTE ]

A few off the top of my head
PFR is fairly late to act increasing the chance of a check through which is [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

This isnt the most spectacular spot for the traditional c/r protection.

We actually put quite alot of pressure on UTG just by leading and him knowing the PFR is acting behind him on a scary board.

imported_leader · #20 12-02-2005, 03:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But why lead the flop to begin with?

[/ QUOTE ]

A few off the top of my head
PFR is fairly late to act increasing the chance of a check through which is [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's actually pretty rare. I mean he has to check and BT has to check. Most players are continuing to bet here because of the A-high flop even if they don't have an A. Plus he could easily have hit a Q here. Those rare times he doesn't bet, BT will bet it a significant amount. I'd be surprised if this got checked though more then 10-15% of the time. In addition, giving CO/BT a chance to bet here doesn't let them get away from nothing for free.