3 part preflop quiz

[Marquis]

Here's the situation (9-handed):

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with two cards.
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero ?

Assume opponents with reasonable raising and 3-betting standards. Original raiser will only cap with AA, KK and AKs. What do you do if you hold:

a) QJs?
b) A5s?
c) 55?

[McGahee]

A) Call
B) Fold
C) Fold

[Firefly]

QJs-Call
A5s-it's close but i'd probally fold
55-easy call

[McGahee]

Aggh, I was too lazy for the math. I guess you're getting more than enough odds (9:1 assuming everyone else calls?) on your money to catch a set of 5's, much less your implied odds.

[Firefly]

I drool when i think of an Ax5 flop when i hold 55. I may be wrong here, but i like to call here.

[moot]

If our opponents have reasonable standards and the game's this aggressive why are we playing A5s and 55 from EP to begin with?

QJs is an easy call. Not sure about the other two. The pot's sure to be 5 or 6 handed and we're getting pretty good odds.

I call with all 3.

[Marquis]

[ QUOTE ]
If our opponents have reasonable standards and the game's this aggressive why are we playing A5s and 55 from EP to begin with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two people happened to pick up big hands. It happens every once in a while, even at passive games.

I have no clue why anyone would fold either of these hands preflop.

Before really digesting other's opinions, I fold QJs and A5s, and I call with 55. My reasoning is that with the 55 hand my hand is usually very defined on the flop and I don't care if it gets capped behind me preflop. With the other two hands, I don't want any more bets going in preflop, and I may partially connect with the flop and put more bets in to find out where I am. I'll end up with a lot more second best hands with A5s or QJs than I will with 55.

[DMBFan23]

A5s sucks up front in aggressive games. Axs is good in loose passive microlimit games, but it's one of the more overrated hands in holdem, IMO

[car ramrod]

DMBFan23 can you give me some insight into why you think Axs is such an overrated hand. I play mainly 1/2 6max and I tend to play them a lot.

I just recently began folding A4s - A2s in early position, but its hard for me still. Not sure why, I guess I like the flush possibilities.

Should I always fold these hands against a raise? Do they play better against many limpers or does that matter? I think they have some good equity considering flush, top pair can win, 2 pair possiblities. Is it just a math game, figuring my equity, against money in the pot, or money expected to make it to the pot?

[DMBFan23]

well in 6 max games things are a little different, for example in MP3 in a full ring game I'm probably opening with A5s+, which is kind of the same as being UTG+1 in 6max - but I'm usually raising it to knock out LP players and maybe steal blinds.

I almost always muck Axs to a raise (we're talking about crappy x's here), but versus a raise and some loose coldcallers you can see a flop sometimes if you're on the button and enough players have come in.

I find they play best in loose games, where you will get paid out the yin yang with flush draws, but can still make a decent pair/2pair as a fallback - that's what seperates them from hands like 73s.

I just find that at 3/6 I am too often dominated, and unless you're likely to get multiway action you're check folding a lot of flops and not getting paid as much on the good ones, and you're often heads up or 3 way in a raised pot where even if you do have the best hand with A high, he has position and initiative and might have you dominated anyway.

in loose passive games, you'll get charged less when behind and make more when youre ahead - having more players in to contribute to your flush draw is straight bling, so they become pretty good at like .5/1 or at some 1/2 6max games