So I'm At The Pistol Range Saturday...

[astroglide]

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de-escalation

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lol. but this thread belongs in politics at this point.

[CORed]

I think it is very likely that this is true. However, my point is, without a note, you may have forensic or circumstantial evidence suggesting that the death was likely to have been suicide, but there is no way, without knowing what the dead person was actually thinking when the gun fired, to be completely certain whether the death was an accident or suicide.

[Derek in NYC]

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The reason you keep your gun locked up is so someone doesn't shoot you with it. Anyone care to guess what percentage of gun owners get shot by their own weapon?



True. But not by other people.

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99% of all “cleaning accidents” are undocumented (no note) suicides.

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How could anyone know that for sure?

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"The rate of gun suicide is correlated with trends in the size of the gun or handgun stock, but the rate of total suicide is not, supporting a substitution argument--when guns are scarce, suicide attempters substitute other methods, with no effect on the total number who die." See Kleck G. Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. New York: Aldine de Gruyter. 1991. A JAMA article has suggested that the presence of a gun in the home increases the risk for adolescent suicide, however.

More broadly, the gun-in-the-home-increases-danger myth is one that has been broadly propogated by anti-gun forces. The genesis of this myth is a highly flawed 1986 study authored by an anti-gun medical researcher. Currently, the best empirical evidence from John Lott, Gary Kleck, and others, suggests that gun ownership by private citizens is positively correlated with reduced crime rates.

[UseThePeenEnd]

There are prohibitions on switchblade knives here in NC also, but open carry of a sheath knife is legal and relatively common. All knives with blades >4 inches MUST be displayed openly here.

The NC legal wording on automatic knives, however, prohibits knives that have assisted opening using both a spring and a button or other triggering device. Therefore the Kershaw auto-openers, which have neither, are legal here.

[UseThePeenEnd]

Their studies also found that early firearms training in firearms-owning households is correlated with a disproportionately low rate of criminal activity later.

As for all the stuff quoted for thirty years by the ant-rights folks: that 1968 crap is now utterly discredited, and the author has steadfastly refused to release his raw data now that his statistical methodology has been successfully challenged by Lott, Kleck et al.

[UseThePeenEnd]

Realism of training...

OK, put two cars side by side and carry a shopping bag. Its dark in the parking deck and you have seen no one until you have your car door open and two guys...

Bet its +EV that nine-tenths of CIVILIAN defensive shootings take place in confined surroundings with physical contact at some point between the assailant and defender-
mooting esoteric debate on stances, sight picture, flashlight grip, etc.

The best location for practical training for civilian defensive shooting is probably an unlighted closet while you have one hand on the target (train self: hand high, pistol low because you WILL NOT hold the free hand fisted to your chest). By this reckoning 90% or so of your practice should be from improvised retention postions.

In a similar vein, in-home defensive shooting isnt about slicing the pie, illumination tactics,etc; its about knowing where your kids are.

Lets not get precious. 90% of folks who go heeled dont have my level of training, much less yours. A little practice helps, and a little realistic practice helps a lot. What most people do at the range is utterly unhelpful tactically, but useful in terms of gunhandling and mindset.

[Derek in NYC]

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(train self: hand high, pistol low because you WILL NOT hold the free hand fisted to your chest). By this reckoning 90% or so of your practice should be from improvised retention postions.

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A standard Weaver stance or two-handed compressed guard/CQB retention are probably the best for indoor tactical use. Position Sul is also okay for certain purposes, but it isn't a great CQB position.

As far as one-handed techniques go, obviously it is necessary to get your support hand ahead of your muzzle on occasion for tasks such as opening doors, picking up a child, etc. The clenched-fish-to-chest technique is a wounded-shooter technique, not a standard one hand technique. But I do agree that civilians need to learn to shoot with one hand only, because in real life situations, they may need their weak hand for something else. Jeff Gonzales teaches an excellent, one-day Strong Hand Only course that brings this home.

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In a similar vein, in-home defensive shooting isnt about slicing the pie, illumination tactics,etc; its about knowing where your kids are.

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Tactics is incredibly important, and I totally disagree that slicing the pie, learning to clear T-junctions/stairwells, opening doors, stealth movement, flashlight techniques, etc. are irrelevant. This stuff saves lives.

Even team movement & communications can be relevant for civilians. I know a husband/wife team that regularly practices fast clearing their home. No kidding, between their hand signals, buttonhook/cross room entries, hi/low cuts, etc. they move like an SRT element.

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What most people do at the range is utterly unhelpful tactically, but useful in terms of gunhandling and mindset.

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Mechanical square range practice is fine, but it is not enough. The best way to work on gunhandling skills is to take a course at Gunsite or some similar school, and the best way to work on mindset is to hunt deer or other large game, and to spend some serious time thinking about whether you are prepared to drop the hammer on a human being.

[DasLeben]

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I can see the point of being prepared for upcoming danger. But; do you always, in your daily life use a hardhat to protect against falling objects? Do you refuse to drive in a car, because of the danger it entails?
Or is that less badass than carrying a gun, "just in case"?

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Do I walk everyday where there are falling objects? No, not really. If I did (i.e. a construction site), then I'd wear a hard hat. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As for a car, I wear a seatbelt.