Pro Poker Players as Job Applicants

[Dan Mezick]

I can't do it.

The reason is that actually being on the path of mastering poker raises your awareness of how to get success in any effort, generally.

Therefore, I agree with Kellermann that the poker "metaskills" (highly leveragable skills that transfer fast to other endeavors, such as figuring odds, managing risk, and making correct reads)apply also to the job search.

With the job search the key poker metaskill is game selection.

The ideal opportunity profile would go like this:

1. Smaller firm
2. Closely held
3. Positioned in a growing industry
4. Poker-friendly (or at least poker-neutral) decision makers
5. Relatively easy access to info on the firm, or a friend inside.

I concede your points about specifics. The job hunt is a high-stakes game featuring incomplete information on specific personalities who "own" the hiring decision.

Play accordingly.

[bkholdem]

I agree with the entrapaneur angle and also agree with A. Shoonmakers points.

I think it's good to make the best of a situation but I also believe in being realistic.

Taking the relative morality/legality issues out of the picture one could also make an argument for a successful 'call girl' being a good background for certain jobs...but because of the public perception most would probably try to find a way around it... Same with a successful drug dealer haha

I like to be provocative to stimulate discussion lol

[sexdrugsmoney]

[ QUOTE ]
Dan,

I agree with your general points about "game selection," but must take exception to one point you made.

You used the word "team" in your reply, but poker players are TERRIBLE team members. Our game is extremely competitive, all against all. In fact, if you play as a team, it's called "collusion" and "cheating."

If a hiring manager is looking for highly individualistic, ruthlessly competitive people, poker players are worthwhile. If he wants a team player, don't even consider poker players.

Thanks for raising an important subject.

Regards,

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the good doctor here.

Poker players are very independant spirits. To make your living at a game like poker (ie- professional gambler) is really in some aspects rejecting the 'normality' that is society and life as the majority knows it.

It could be that this player has found that they can't 'grind' it out anymore and want a stable job, but more than likely they haven't given up poker completely and I'd bet it's only so long before that world interferes with the normal one (ie- 9 to 5) and their workrate suffers or they eventually give up the job.

With no intention to pun, hiring a professional poker player is a "gamble". [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bkholdem]

Legalities aside, what about the trasferrable skills of a hit man? I'd imagine that successful poker players have many of the same qualities hahahaaa

[Girchuck]

Why would you want somebody working for you who is not happy with his job?

[Dan Mezick]

OK, call girl skills may transfer well to "some" types of businesses.

But, poker skills do translate well to "most" types of businesses.

I'm not sold on the call-girl argument.

I do admit the "WINNING-poker-guy-as-employee" argument has some flaws.

But he's mastered a very difficult game, and all other things being equal he's still a higher life form than the the typical garden-variety candidate.

[Kellermann]

[ QUOTE ]
Kellermann is a player !

[/ QUOTE ]

So you got my point?

[Dan Mezick]

Totally. These metaskills you discuss- yes. Poker skills are metaskills-- they can be broadly applied. That is what I meant to say.

You said it best.

[sumdumguy]

I can't do it.
You can't do it? What do you mean you can't do it?

You've presented some truly convicing arguments about how the skills and experience of a poker professional can displace experienced accountants, lawyers, actuaries, economists, engineers, dentists, doctors, psychologists, criminologists, and even executives! The way you paint the picture, I imagine if the games ever got real tough, the food lines will not by filled by former college poker pros, but by experienced professionals from all walks of life recently displaced by the uniquely qualified college poker pro's re-entry into the workforce.

How can you not find one "real" job where x number of years in poker makes an applicant more qualified than the applicant with x number of years in the vocation or related vocation? How do you reconcile "can't do it" with "embracing reality"?

The ideal opportunity profile would go like this:

1. Smaller firm
2. Closely held
3. Positioned in a growing industry
4. Poker-friendly (or at least poker-neutral) decision makers
5. Relatively easy access to info on the firm, or a friend inside.

But can a smaller, often undercapitalized firm, competing for market share in a growing sector, afford a pure decision maker? The decision makers in most smaller firms in growing markets do a lot of work themselves! What work can a poker player contribute that cannot be substituted by a college kid at minimum wage? Will he deal cards during lunch? And when the firm grows quickly (presumably the addition of a poker pro will facilitate this), in what senior, managerial, or executive capacity will the former poker pro contribute? Fresh Air Inspector?

As to a pure decision maker or advisory capacity, would it not be better to hire a consultant or recently retired executive instead of a poker player? Many successful early retirees in marketing, management, law, finance, banking, etc. of smaller of firms take semi-retirement night school jobs at small local colleges teaching business, law, and accounting courses. These people also do consultation work for small firms at very affordabe prices. They aren't underqualified or failures. They're simply older people no longer content with the daily grind, and seeking an opportunity to satisfy emotional or psychological needs by passing on their wisdom and experience as they prepare to enter retirement life.

What you have described, is an ideal opportunity for the poker pro, not the company! And this is not surprising that poker pros are opportunistic. It is consistent with the profile of a successful poker pro, in search of the ideal opportunity.. for themselves! And consistent with your point:

5. Relatively easy access to info on the firm, or a friend inside.

I concede your points about specifics. The job hunt is a high-stakes game featuring incomplete information on specific personalities who "own" the hiring decision.

It is about one getting what is best for oneself and how to do it. But what will one contribute once one gets the job? Clean the owner's washroom? How long will one remain employed?

One can not describe a single "real" job for which poker better qualifies an individual than field or related field experience because none exists. Nor can one find any extra-poker real world situation in which poker experience better qualifes a candidate than field or related field experience, as a consultant or advisor. The poker pro has neither the experience nor knowledge specific to the situation and industry to provide quality, informed, and expert advice.

Even in the capacity of pure decision maker or risk analyst, there are plenty of others better qualified. The poker pro is familiar and experienced only with self power and self responsibility. There is no such thing as a simple decision maker in any organized environment. With decision making power (from others) comes responsibility (to others). The decision maker must have strong leadership skills to direct and accept responsibility for subordinates, and an appreciation and adherence to fiduciary responsibilities to those that empowered him.. a reality not in the realm of poker experience.

Poker is not to all vocations, as math is to all sciences. Learn to, as you say, embrace reality.

[sumdumguy]

I agree with the entrapaneur angle and also agree with A. Shoonmakers points.
There are some serious problems even from the entrepreneurial angle. In almost any entrepreneurial undertaking, the owner/manager has some some skills and experience that qualifies him for the trade of the business. Restaurants, flower shops, landscaping, and construction companies are started by those with expertise in the trade: chefs, florists, landscapers, and carpenters. Law offices, dental offices, accouting offices, are started by certified and/or experienced professionals. There are few businesses such as a corner grocery store or gas station that can be successful startups for a non-expert owner/manager, and of these, anyone with x number of years as stockboy, cashier, or business/managerial environement is no less qualified as anyone with x number of years at the card table.

The best a poker education prepares one, is ownership. Which is not exactly the same as entrepreneurial venture. But then again, any citizen of a free and capital-democratic society is qualifed to posses capital and reap the rewards of ownership: stocks, bonds, real estate, equipment or whatever else. The transition from mere ownership to growing business concern requires entreprenerial spirit and some expertise in the trade of the business. And poker, is no substitute for direct or related experience.

The simplest "business" a poker player exiting the profession can possibly engage (other than a cardroom): self employed stock market investor.