I hate these

djoyce003 · #1 06-28-2005, 02:31 PM

Fairly new to the table so not a lot of reads, but villain is on the LAGGY side, and I know this at this point. I also know that he's folded to a lot of my continuation bets. What line do you take here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($58.37)
SB ($59.7)
BB ($50.11)
UTG ($91.4)
MP ($50)
Hero ($115)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.5. MP posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $1, MP (poster) checks, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, UTG calls $3, MP folds.

Flop: ($10.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $10, UTG raises to $30,Hero ??

boxedIn · #2 06-28-2005, 04:58 PM

If he's on the LAGgy side, then I think you can safely push allin here.

To list the hands you're scared of: 77, 88, A8, A7, AK. All of these are distinct possibilities to be played this way. However, considering the villian is LAGgy, he could be playing: AJ-A9 (and perhaps worse?), any two diamonds, 9T, 89 ... i.e. a lot of hands.

You said he had been folding to your continuation bets constantly, so when he decides to make a stand here, I'm more willing to bet on a draw than on a solid hand.

I'm guessing I'm wrong simply because you posted this hand here for discussion (I'm guessing he had two pair - A8 or A7), but I still think the right decision against a LAGgy player is to get your money in the pot.

If this player was solid, then it's an insanely difficult decision, with me leaning towards folding ... but you have to go with your reads of the player.

EDIT: After re-reading your post, I realize you are both fairly deep stacked. This fact leads me to think that pushing is, in fact, insanely stupid. (I was thinking you had stack sizes around $60). Sorry for the mistake.

In light of this new information, I think the board dictates that you might have to call this flop bet and play the turn. If the turn is a scare card (diamond or in the straight range) and he pushes hard, I think you can let this hand go with a clear conscience. If he shows a weak bet on the turn (or a check), then I think you can push hard with a 3/4 pot (or pot) sized bet ... and once you do that, you're liable to be committed if he comes over you, though you definitely do not like to call a check-raise.

amoeba · #3 06-28-2005, 05:29 PM

will need examples of his previous laggy play.

this is tough spot as he has about as much as you do and if you call you are pot committed.

I generally hate these as I'm not that much ahead of the draw but I'm really behind a set. trouble is that a draw is much more likely than a set given the board.

I would lean towards push if you have seen him raise with draws before.

EMcWilliams · #4 06-28-2005, 05:44 PM

I think a LAGgy villian is sitting pretty with Ax [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and is not folding to your push. According to a quick poker stove, I think either you are wayyyyy behind or just about even, and that is a poor push in deep stacked NL. What would a LAGgy villian call-call-check-reraise with in UTG. I would put his range on anything from 87o, 9To, 9Ts, 66-99, JTs, Axs, and I dont really like facing any of those in this situation.