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#1
05-24-2005, 12:02 PM
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The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
I sent the following e-mail to the Oaks club management, and different letters to a few publications that I won't post in case they want to publish them. I've also attached a transcript of an instant messaging discussion with a friend that describes the particular incident. (Please forgive the crudity of the "IM" discussion; I've included it only for hand information.) My goals are multiple, but primarily to send a message to the Oaks and other card room administrations that they must enforce their rules properly, and when mistakes are made, by them, they must account for them. I fully realize the amount of money involved is negligible to most of you, but as poker players I think you should consider the impact of this scenario as relevant to any game, hand, or pot size.
Sent to Oaks Management: I have sent letters to "Card Player Magazine," "The Daily Cal," and I'm still looking for other publications. I plan to follow up on them, and may still take legal action if the UC Berkeley School of Law thinks that I have a case for more than the $150 pot that was stolen from me. At the very least, I will make sure that floormen and supervisors at the Oaks think twice before ridiculing customers and ignoring the rulebook. I will not rest until I have convinced Berkeley student poker players to play elsewhere. Relevant information: Date: 5/24/05 at 4:11am Game: 3-6 hold-em Table 11 Floorman on duty: "Boomer" Supervisor on duty: "Bruno" (Peleg) Dealer: "Hannah" Pot size: ~$150 A wrong decision was made by a floorman at the request of another player; I objected, but was ignored. After reading the posted rulebook, I complained to the supervisor, "Bruno" who, after reviewing the tapes told me I was correct but that he would not do anything about it, and that he would not help me. When I questioned the legality of this situation, he laughed at me and more or less told me to go home with "good luck" and to come back with a lawyer. The reason I am writing this e-mail is because I should hope there are people who have a higher vested interest in the Oaks Card room than the supervisor, may know how to treat customers, and may take threats of action seriously. -NM Transcript between a friend that describes the event: friend: what exactly happened? NM: 3 relevant ppl NM: me, glasses guy, cheating asian guy NM: glasses guy to my right NM: cheater to my left NM: he checks NM: i bet NM: (flopped 2 pair) NM: i get raised NM: glasses calls NM: i 3 bet it NM: he caps it NM: glasses guy SAYS CALL.. MEANS TO CALL, but puts in 3 chips instead of 6 NM: i call the cap NM: asian guy says nothing NM: the turn card comes NM: all of a sudden the asian guy says the other guy missed the bet NM: and wants the card redealt NM: i say no, the betting completed, etc. NM: floorman is called over who doesnt even listen to anything NM: immediately says "whats gonna happen is bla bla bla" NM: i say wait, stop NM: this is bullshit NM: they dont listen friend: they gotta be in cahoots or at least friendly with each other NM: it goes on NM: they redeal the turn, and FORCE me to act. NM: his ace up NM: wins b/c the board pairs NM: after the card was redealt friend: that's weak friend: if that's the case we could play a table and intentionally do that to get a free card NM: yea it isnt the case though NM: the rulebook says if he calls he owes the money to the pot NM: and the supervisor (after looking at it on camera and calling me into the backroom) NM: flat out told me im right in this case NM: but he would do nothing cuz it already happened NM: and a "floorman's decision is final" friend: i don't see how they could redeal the card friend: but the floorman's decision must be in the interest of fair play friend: i still don't see how they can redeal the card NM: its bs NM: the thinking is that if that guy didnt reallycall NM: then he got to see the card for free and then decide to put his money in or not NM: but he called NM: he just put in the wrong amt of chips friend: first off, he said call, 2nd, he place chips out there NM: yea NM: theres no dispute on camera friend: i forget, does oaks have a bet line? NM: yep friend: so obviously he crossed the line NM: yep NM: theres no dispute about the rule friend: i don't see how there's any dispute, one chip and it's a call NM: yea exactly NM: the supervisor said that to me! NM: he was like bla bla even if he put 1 chip NM: i was reasonable: i said fine, in that event give everyone their money back and consider the hand misdealt NM: and he said its not gonna happen and that was pretty much it NM: basically his stance was NM: that I'm right NM: its too late NM: they aren't going to do anything about it NM: it just pisses me off NM: cuz its not only $150 (which still is a reasonable amt for me) NM: but its principle & poker NM: that gives them the authority to steal $150-x any time they want friend: i bet that guy was a regular or something, that's why he got special treatment NM: oh im sure he was a reg NM: but most are regs NM: it wasnt that NM: it was just the floorman not really caring at all NM: and going w. whatever he heard first NM: and no one listening to my objection NM: i mean it was pretty embarassing NM: asking for the rulebook NM: basically being blown off NM: then having to go get up and look at the rulebook for myself NM: finding out im right, going thru al that [censored] NM: to have them tell me they wont do [censored] NM: they could easily have seen the amt of money on the camera and appeased me, but now it’s about the principle. 
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#2
05-24-2005, 12:06 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
I hope you cleaned that up when you sent it out to various editors.
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#3
05-24-2005, 12:07 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
Deal with it.
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#5
05-24-2005, 12:39 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
The transcript was not sent to any publication. The Daily Cal has already tentatively agreed to print an article upon review, most likely because I am a UC Berkeley student. Oh, and Boalt will care because that is the particular school I go to.
-NM Edit: In case there is some confusion, Emeryville is the next town over from Berkeley, and the card room is about ten minutes away from UC Berkeley campus and frequented by students.
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#6
05-24-2005, 12:43 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
[ QUOTE ]
The transcript was not sent to any publication. The Daily Cal has already tentatively agreed to print an article upon review, most likely because I am a UC Berkeley student. Oh, and Boalt will care because that is the particular school I go to. -NM [/ QUOTE ] So Boalt cares about a bad floor ruling at a local cardroom when a student is involved? Doesn't the Daily Cal have some ASUC nonsense to report instead?
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#7
05-24-2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
I think it's a legitimate issue. With the poker boom, especially among people my age- card rooms must guarantee upholding of the rules. Failure to do so, when the camera doesn't lie and the supervisor blatantly admits it, is against the law. When I mention Boalt, I'm talking about getting legal advice from the department, not that they are ready to champion my cause. The Daily Cal is an independent student newspaper that runs articles that may be relevant to the student community. *Lots* of Cal students play poker at the Oaks.
-NM
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#8
05-24-2005, 12:52 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a legitimate issue. With the poker boom, especially among people my age- card rooms must guarantee upholding of the rules. Failure to do so, when the camera doesn't lie and the supervisor blatantly admits it, is against the law. When I mention Boalt, I'm talking about getting legal advice from the department, not that they are ready to champion my cause. The Daily Cal is an independent student newspaper that runs articles that may be relevant to the student community. *Lots* of Cal students play poker at the Oaks. -NM [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the info; I went to Cal. Why not just contact the Oakland Tribune? Or these guys?
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#10
05-24-2005, 01:00 PM
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Re: The Oaks Cardroom - Emeryville (Poor decision making)
Yes - there were mistakes made here. My first question is "Did you see the misbet, as the Asian gentleman did?"
If so, why didn't you say anything. Second, who won the pot with aces up? Regardless, it appears to me that the Asian gentleman is the one that took the shot - he figures to get a new card if he complains after the turn hits, and that's what happens (because in some rooms, the hand can not continue until all the bets are right, so the cards get shuffled and a new turn or river is dealt). Again, regardless of who complained, and who won, give it up. Mistakes happen. That is why the last rule on the rule board is always: Floorman's decision is final. Yeah, it sucks. Live with it. It happens. Side note: I've played at the Oaks several times in the past, and never had a problem. I would bet good money that this is a very isolated incident. Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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