Why do I suck at 10/20? (Long and cathartic)

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be no surprise at all to find you were a 1BB/100 player running bad; slightly surprising to find you were a 2BB/100 player running really bad; pretty shocking but not impossible to find you were a 3BB/100 player running extremely terribly awfully bad; and a real stretch to find you were better than a 3BB/100 player.

[/ QUOTE ]
This makes me feel better. Thanks.

I do want to be a 3BB/100 player at this limit, though, so I have some work to do.

[sammy_g]

You're right, kiddo. Nice post.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
in what ways did you alter your play

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Tighten up preflop. I was 25/18 at 5/10, and opened up to 30/20 upon moving up to 10/20 6max - I read lots of posts talking about how 20/16s get "crushed" at 10/20...it's utter garbage, you can be quite succesful with numbers that tight, and I spewed lots of chips playing too loose preflop while being unfamiliar with the aggression levels postflop.

2. Bet-fold MUCH less against LAGs. It's almost always more profitable to check and induce a bluff than bet-fold with a marginal hand, because these LAGs will bluff with nearly anything when they smell weakness. 5/10 bad players call with anything. 10/20 bad players bet with anything.

3. Corrolary to 2: check through more turns, especially in small pots, with the intent of calling a river bet. Again, marginal hands (maybe even A-hi), and especially vs LAGs.

4. Better table selection - I don't just fire up 4 tables anymore.

5. Get to showdown more - this is aided by 2 and 3 but is a general understanding that flop bets and raises mean much less at 10/20 than they do at 5/10, and my relative made hand value goes up accordingly, especially heads-up.

Surf

[maxpowers21]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in what ways did you alter your play

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Tighten up preflop. I was 25/18 at 5/10, and opened up to 30/20 upon moving up to 10/20 6max - I read lots of posts talking about how 20/16s get "crushed" at 10/20...it's utter garbage, you can be quite succesful with numbers that tight, and I spewed lots of chips playing too loose preflop while being unfamiliar with the aggression levels postflop.

2. Bet-fold MUCH less against LAGs. It's almost always more profitable to check and induce a bluff than bet-fold with a marginal hand, because these LAGs will bluff with nearly anything when they smell weakness. 5/10 bad players call with anything. 10/20 bad players bet with anything.

3. Corrolary to 2: check through more turns, especially in small pots, with the intent of calling a river bet. Again, marginal hands (maybe even A-hi), and especially vs LAGs.

4. Better table selection - I don't just fire up 4 tables anymore.

5. Get to showdown more - this is aided by 2 and 3 but is a general understanding that flop bets and raises mean much less at 10/20 than they do at 5/10, and my relative made hand value goes up accordingly, especially heads-up.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

Great advice. Although don't overdo checking thru the turn, in positiion heads up vs a lag. i will still force him to checkraise me to push me off a hand, I hate giving free cards in these situations, but you will get checkraised much more here from opponets at 10-20.

The key is to call down more on turn checkraises, this is the most difficult adjustment to make, when to call down crappy 1-pair, no pair hands against a LAG type player, it is very difficult to get a read, reading board texture is critical.

[mperich]

I have run breakeven for that long before, and I am not a breakeven player in the 10/20. Not that I'm giving you an easy scapegoat (variance), but it IS possible. A lot of people don't understand just how huge the swings in this game can get, unless they have experienced it.

That being said: value bet the river more, and bet the turn more headsup with position and a showdownable hand, even if its not the greatest showdown hand.

-Mike