A steal stolen

[Coilean]

This is an odd hand from a few months ago that I remembered because of thinking about value betting the river in Mason's "A Pair of Fours" repost. I'm in the BB with AJo in a typically loose 20-40 game, when it atypically folds around to a tight weakish player in the cutoff, who raises after looking for a moment like he was going to just call. Both the LAG SB and myself call.

The flop is KTx. SB checks, I check to cheaply see if the SB really meant it, CO bets, SB really meant it and folds, so I call.

The turn is a blank and I check call.

The river is a blank, I check and CO bets. Well, I almost fold here before I remember this player habitually checks down top pair and even overpair hands on the river, so I call, smelling something fishy. The CO sighs out "Good call," flashing me his small pocket pair before mucking it! I bemusedly stack his chips, thinking what a strange game this can be: one man's bluff is another man's value bet. So don't forget to value bet your pairs on the river, and for god's sakes don't forget to table them when you do! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Tommy Angelo]

"one man's bluff is another man's value bet"

Well stated!

Should there be a term for when we're not quite sure which it is at the time? The "value bluff?"

[Ed Miller]

I tend to call on the river with some pretty hairy crapola sometimes. I was wondering just the other day how often some of the "bluffs" that my opponents muck rather than show down actually beat my hand...

BTW, I've started to bet the turn in spots like this. It seems to be a popular move at the Bellagio mid-limits. Of course I raise them when they try to do it to me, but I seem to be the only one habitually raising this bet (at least at the 15-30), so I think you can bet away in the clear until they catch on.

[Clarkmeister]

Did the CO open limping make you check preflop, because I am raising a weak CO and a LAG who couldn't muster a raise like...oh...100% of the time here preflop.

[Nottom]

The CO raised preflop.

[Clarkmeister]

Thanks. Chalk one up to old age.

[andyfox]

"don't forget to table them when you do!"

I was betting all the way one hand with K-Q when the river ended up K-5-5-7-A (or something similar) and I was called by the big blind who, it was evident, had a weaker king and had caught up for a chop on the river. After I bet and he called the river, my opponent called saying "I got lucky" and I tabled my hand and he flashed me K-T and I shook my head in acknowledgement and he said "chop-chop" and he mucked. We then both realized he hadn't tabled his hand. I told the dealer chop it up and some nimrod starts to object. I tell him the blind also had a king it was a split pot. He says the blind mucked, I should get the whole pot. I says OK, I'm gonna give half of it to the blind. He says he objects to that too. I says I'm gonna count it up and we're going to go away from the table and I'm going to give him the cash, why slow up the game by having the two of us leave the table. He says how do I know the two of you aren't colluding. At this point I give up and give half the pot to the player who had won half the pot and tell him to call over the floorman which he does who listens to the story, shakes his head, tells the objector everything is copacetic, deal the next hand.

Nice place, that Commerce.

[andyfox]

I just remembered an even better one. I guy ends up all in against me; he has pocket sevens and I have pocket aces. We're sitting next to each other so we show each other the cards as the flop is coming out. The board ends up 8-7-3-8-3. As he sees the second pair hit the river, he says, "Damn, I got counterfeited," and mucks his pocket sevens! I look at him and tell him he had the winner, and tell the dealer to give him the pot. He thinks a second, and says, omigod, what did I do, and throws me one chip, which I acknowledge with thanks.

I always show the all-in player my hand as soon as possible, so it was because I flashed him my aces that he even flashed me his sevens. If I had turned over my aces on the river, he probably would have mucked his full house.

[elysium]

hi coil
not questioning how you played this one, but you might have check-raised the flop and bet out on the turn.

on the river, rather than calling, you should raise.

[Coilean]

Yeah, agreed; this hand was definitely begging to be played stronger given I'm against a weak tight guy who's easy to read and might even fold something like T9 or QQ to a bit of aggression. Really, the only thing to like about this hand is that I won it after calling a better hand on the river. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]