1st WSOP 2005 hand,how would YOU have played it? X-Post - Page 3

The Stick · #21 07-11-2005, 04:44 PM

If the point is "survival on day one", wouldn't it be acceptable to see the turn cheaply and decide then? If villain has 9c Tc or perhaps a pair and straight or flush draw, he could have 14+ outs on that flop. You could be reraising on the flop as only a slight favorite or underdog. Is it wrong to wait for the turn card and decide then, when it's gone from possibly 50-50 to probably 75-25, and you just have to figure out which one you are?

If the goal is "survival", I don't want coinflips, I want to put the money in when I know my opponent is making a mistake by calling. I know it's scared poker in the long run, but for the specific scenario and with the stated goal, I don't see it as wrong.

capone0 · #22 07-11-2005, 04:44 PM

I'd be pressed to also see someone fold 22 there. I know it's early in the tourney but Sets are hardly folded. If I knew for instance player C would only go allin with the Nuts, then I might fold. But I just got to the table and I just picked up second set. I would probally not fold to anyone. I wouldn't say our player got outplayed, he got outlucked. Personally I would have reraised the flop. Lets say to 3k or so. If the guy goes allin or calls with 109 then so be it.

Masquerade · #23 07-11-2005, 04:44 PM

I woulve re-raised hard on the flop and hopefully avoided your fate.

locutus2002 · #24 07-11-2005, 04:46 PM

Notice that villain got his chips in with the nuts.

It's not my read, but its definitely a possibility.

Whether he reraises or calls,hero must consider JJ as a possibility and be careful as he proceeds. My sense is that most players just call here. I personally call, because I think 77 is likely the best hand and I like to play alot of small pots, but then I probably play alot more hands than you do.

capone0 · #25 07-11-2005, 04:49 PM

locutus, if your folding second set often. how often are you going to win tournaments? i'd put that answer close to 0. i think the only mistake our player made was not re-raising on that flop. other hands are possible. QQ, KK, AA are also possible if player B isn't that great of a player. i personally would have lost most of my chips here. the turn c/r would be extremely scary (to get c/red twice for huge amounts of chips). what can you do.........i doubt the guy is still in the tourney making those players that early.

capone0 · #26 07-11-2005, 04:53 PM

I definitely understand that. The turn is scarier. But honestly on the flop there is 1 better hand. I've watched and played alot of poker, I don't remember anyone ever folding sets on empty boards. Maybe I don't watch enough or don't have enough friends. I can't remember 1 person not playing a set to it's fullest and will take a set way too far. Maybe I'm playing with terrible players and watching terrible players. Maybe I only play cash. But if your always worried about Monsters, you'll never win any money. If I would only push with the Nuts or only played after the flop with the Nuts, I wouldn't make any money. The only hands I'm really afraid of after that flop are as you've pointed out 109c and JJ. 2 hands of all the possible starting hands that beat me. Who would have guessing 109o. The turn is where I would have gotten scared, the flop is something I like, the only thing that could be better is a 3 suited flop.

locutus2002 · #27 07-11-2005, 04:55 PM

Check your appendix.

I certainly don't have the experience you have yet, but I think its unusual to see a drawing hand reraise here OOP, and rare to see someone put a move on, this early on. I think 2 pr and sets are more likely. I'm not going to dismiss any hand with this many chips behind me.

locutus2002 · #28 07-11-2005, 05:08 PM

Wait a second. I'm calling the c/r.

there are ~30 cards that I am happy betting if checked to. The pot is only T1650, I am happy calling a reasonable bet no matter what comes on the turn.

As for winning tournaments, I couldn't be happier with my results.

capone0 · #29 07-11-2005, 05:10 PM

can you give me instances where you've folded 2nd set and it was correct? I guess I don't play enough poker.

sorry for the edit. when the hand isn't obvious. when you believe the other player has a set? I don't have problems folding sets when the board has flushed or straighted, but 27J flop with 2 clubs and a c/r = semi bluff.

sammy_g · #30 07-11-2005, 05:19 PM

My weak-tight, scared, playin'-in-his-frist-10k-tourney ass would have checked the turn, rationalizing it to myself by thinking, "I'm trying to induce a river bluff." But that is a bad poker and not how you win tournaments.

You played it much better.

It's horrible your WSOP ended like this. Poker can be a tough, tough game.